[p2p-research] interesting comment on openness in open stewadshipdiscussion

Sun Sep 12 21:38:39 CEST 2010

Michel,

I agree completely with your statements below. My point however was to show
that the "open" movement is part of historical processes--what is liberating
under one set of conditions (where there are for example strong measures to
ensure a strong educational experience for all) is quite different where
such measures are not in place and for example the capacity to take
advantage of the opportunities presented by open information are only
effectively acccessible by a relatively small (and not necessarily publicly
interested) minority.

As was clear from the reaction to the original post many/most of those
advocating "openness", see it in the (libertarian) context of removing
government restrictions on individual action/influence rather than for
example in the context of enabling/empowering communities to improve their
collective position through advocay and the use of information.

I think it is really important to continuously link the two positions that
is (the preconditions/elements of support for) equity and openness otherwise
the first issue "equity", tends to get lost in the claxons of triumph
concerning the second "openness:.

Best,

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: Michel Bauwens [mailto:michelsub2004 at gmail.com] 
Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2010 12:17 PM
To: p2p research network
Cc: Michael Maranda; Michael Gurstein
Subject: Re: [p2p-research] interesting comment on openness in open
stewadshipdiscussion

Hi Michael,' 

we should be aware of how the enemy uses and coopts terms, but should not
accept defeat and keep redefining terms the way we mean them .... any term
you can use, like sustainability, can become meaningless or have an opposite
meaning,

so openness can exist both in neoliberal and peer-driven contexts ...

I fully understand that open data by itself is not enough or can be used
counter-productively as your indian case study suggests,

but surely, saying that therefore open data should remain secret, is pretty
much like saying that literacy is bad, because equally, literacy create more
inequality,

surely, the right approach is to support open data, while at the same time
expanding the conditions for its use and access in an equitable manner ...

There can be no equality without access to information ...

Michel

On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 6:48 PM, Michael Gurstein <gurstein at gmail.com>
wrote:

I'm not sure how far I want to push this argument at this time (I haven't
completely thought it through)... But I'm not completely sure that there is
not a close association between "openness" and the neo-liberal agenda of
promoting individual opportunity and individual initiative at the expense of
collective effort and collective responsibility.  Where I'm coming from on
this is embedded in the blogposts I pointed to in my earlier emails to this
list but what open movement folks tend to ignore (and they seemed quite
startled about it when I pointed it out), is that not everyone starts from
the same place and thus the opportunities presented by "openness" of various
kinds have quite different significance and likelihood of beneficial uptake
depending on where you start from--blogpost 1

 <http://gurstein.wordpress.com/2010/09/02/open-data-empowering-the-emp>
http://gurstein.wordpress.com/2010/09/02/open-data-empowering-the-emp
<http://gurstein.wordpress.com/2010/09/02/open-data-empowering-the-empowered
-or-effective-data-use-for-everyone/>
owered-or-effective-data-use-for-everyone/
The traditional role of social contract anchored state structures has been
to provide at least some of the necessary elements (blogpost 2) as a
platform to ensure some degree of equalized opportunity.  The erosion of
this as a result of the onslaughts of neo-liberalism means that the "open"
movement is opening things up--data, culture, government etc.etc. for those
who are individual access to the elements necessary for making "effective
use" of these--a good education, access to technical resources, access to
capital etc.etc.  For those who don't start off with this type of socially
offered "silver spoon" -- tough luck in an "open world".
 <http://gurstein.wordpress.com/2010/09/09/open-data-2-effective-data-u>
http://gurstein.wordpress.com/2010/09/09/open-data-2-effective-data-u
<http://gurstein.wordpress.com/2010/09/09/open-data-2-effective-data-use/>
se/

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: p2presearch-bounces at listcultures.org
[mailto:p2presearch-bounces at listcultures.org] On Behalf Of Michel Bauwens
Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2010 9:11 AM
To: Peer-To-Peer Research List
Subject: [p2p-research] interesting comment on openness in open
stewadshipdiscussion

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Facebook <notification+pjiidwm at facebookmail.com
<mailto:notification%2Bpjiidwm at facebookmail.com> >
Date: Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 2:18 PM
Subject: Michael Maranda also commented on his link.
To: Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>

Michael Maranda also commented on his link.

Michael wrote:
"@Michel ... for the moment, we're just allowing it to reverberate in the
blogosphere.  But are soon going to have to have some kind of space.  Ning
is  a bit antithetical to this.  One option under consideration is
BuddyPress

@Jeff I am headed to ChicagoCOUNTs at IIT -- I will have to address your
comments later.  But you have approached this from a very different point
than this was initially intended, at least in my expression.  Open Culture
as I used the term is an encompassing range of all the items in the list ...
"open access, architecture, currencies, data, government, hardware,
identity, knowledge, media, platforms, protocols, source code, spectrum, and
standards" .. assuming a non-exhaustive list.

Openness in these contexts, is normative.   In many cases compelling
openness would be problematic and one may say detrimental to the freedom
implied in the concept.  That is, if I do something (alone or with others)
and I am not ready to share it, the openness doctrine should not compel me
to share it.   Of course in certain roles and for certain purposes we may
vey well wish too dictate such transparency.

There is much more to say, but even in interpreting this from the sense of
Culture in the broadest human sense, and your hesitation at openness there,
I will say that as Culture is a process the natural mode is openness.
Culture and Ethnicity are dynamic processes and ideas and cultural practices
cannot help but influence each other.

Will reply more to other points at a later time.

But one last point --Open Source itself is Utopian.  It's a direction we as
a culture are headed.  That doesn't mean we'll reach Utopia, but I do have a
sense that as a species we could all live together with considerably more
dignity and yet still not reach Utopia.  Better to shoot for the Moon than
to shoot at our foot."

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