[p2p-research] interesting comment on openness in open stewadshipdiscussion

Sun Sep 12 21:16:33 CEST 2010

Hi Michael,'

we should be aware of how the enemy uses and coopts terms, but should not
accept defeat and keep redefining terms the way we mean them .... any term
you can use, like sustainability, can become meaningless or have an opposite
meaning,

so openness can exist both in neoliberal and peer-driven contexts ...

I fully understand that open data by itself is not enough or can be used
counter-productively as your indian case study suggests,

but surely, saying that therefore open data should remain secret, is pretty
much like saying that literacy is bad, because equally, literacy create more
inequality,

surely, the right approach is to support open data, while at the same time
expanding the conditions for its use and access in an equitable manner ...

There can be no equality without access to information ...

Michel

On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 6:48 PM, Michael Gurstein <gurstein at gmail.com>wrote:

>  I'm not sure how far I want to push this argument at this time (I haven't
> completely thought it through)... But I'm not completely sure that there is
> not a close association between "openness" and the neo-liberal agenda of
> promoting individual opportunity and individual initiative at the expense of
> collective effort and collective responsibility.  Where I'm coming from on
> this is embedded in the blogposts I pointed to in my earlier emails to this
> list but what open movement folks tend to ignore (and they seemed quite
> startled about it when I pointed it out), is that not everyone starts from
> the same place and thus the opportunities presented by "openness" of various
> kinds have quite different significance and likelihood of beneficial uptake
> depending on where you start from--blogpost 1
>
> ** <http://gurstein.wordpress.com/2010/09/02/open-data-empowering-the-emp>
> *http://gurstein.wordpress.com/2010/09/02/open-data-empowering-the-emp<http://gurstein.wordpress.com/2010/09/02/open-data-empowering-the-empowered-or-effective-data-use-for-everyone/>
> ***owered-or-effective-data-use-for-everyone/
> The traditional role of social contract anchored state structures has been
> to provide at least some of the necessary elements (blogpost 2) as a
> platform to ensure some degree of equalized opportunity.  The erosion of
> this as a result of the onslaughts of neo-liberalism means that the "open"
> movement is opening things up--data, culture, government etc.etc. for those
> who are individual access to the elements necessary for making "effective
> use" of these--a good education, access to technical resources, access to
> capital etc.etc.  For those who don't start off with this type of socially
> offered "silver spoon" -- tough luck in an "open world".
> ** <http://gurstein.wordpress.com/2010/09/09/open-data-2-effective-data-u>
> *http://gurstein.wordpress.com/2010/09/09/open-data-2-effective-data-u<http://gurstein.wordpress.com/2010/09/09/open-data-2-effective-data-use/>
> ***se/
>
> Mike
>
>  -----Original Message-----
> *From:* p2presearch-bounces at listcultures.org [mailto:
> p2presearch-bounces at listcultures.org] *On Behalf Of *Michel Bauwens
> *Sent:* Sunday, September 12, 2010 9:11 AM
> *To:* Peer-To-Peer Research List
> *Subject:* [p2p-research] interesting comment on openness in open
> stewadshipdiscussion
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Facebook <notification+pjiidwm at facebookmail.com<notification%2Bpjiidwm at facebookmail.com>
> >
> Date: Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 2:18 PM
> Subject: Michael Maranda also commented on his link.
> To: Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>
>
>
> Michael Maranda also commented on his link.
>
> Michael wrote:
> "@Michel ... for the moment, we're just allowing it to reverberate in the
> blogosphere.  But are soon going to have to have some kind of space.  Ning
> is  a bit antithetical to this.  One option under consideration is
> BuddyPress
>
> @Jeff I am headed to ChicagoCOUNTs at IIT -- I will have to address your
> comments later.  But you have approached this from a very different point
> than this was initially intended, at least in my expression.  Open Culture
> as I used the term is an encompassing range of all the items in the list ...
> "open access, architecture, currencies, data, government, hardware,
> identity, knowledge, media, platforms, protocols, source code, spectrum, and
> standards" .. assuming a non-exhaustive list.
>
> Openness in these contexts, is normative.   In many cases compelling
> openness would be problematic and one may say detrimental to the freedom
> implied in the concept.  That is, if I do something (alone or with others)
> and I am not ready to share it, the openness doctrine should not compel me
> to share it.   Of course in certain roles and for certain purposes we may
> vey well wish too dictate such transparency.
>
> There is much more to say, but even in interpreting this from the sense of
> Culture in the broadest human sense, and your hesitation at openness there,
> I will say that as Culture is a process the natural mode is openness.
>  Culture and Ethnicity are dynamic processes and ideas and cultural
> practices cannot help but influence each other.
>
> Will reply more to other points at a later time.
>
> But one last point --Open Source itself is Utopian.  It's a direction we as
> a culture are headed.  That doesn't mean we'll reach Utopia, but I do have a
> sense that as a species we could all live together with considerably more
> dignity and yet still not reach Utopia.  Better to shoot for the Moon than
> to shoot at our foot."
>
>
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