[p2p-research] Update on mapping P2P

Sat Sep 11 19:04:57 CEST 2010

sorry <i have no more time to be engaged at the present, being on the road
until the end of november ...

seems to me we have to find a programmer respectful of freedom of speech
though ..'

Michel

On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 10:58 AM, Thomas <p2p at colby.de> wrote:

>  Hello everybody,
>
> I'd like to give you an update about the P2P Mapping project. Even though
> there has been quite some programming going on, it is unfortunately stuck at
> the moment.
>
> The main problem is the privacy discussion. The programmer I'm working with
> refuses to build a platform where everybody can enter information about
> somebody's else projects. The prototype-example we were discussing about is
> some ecovillage, that prefers not to be listed in the internet. Opt-out
> after being listed was not an option in this case, because of the argument
> 'what's once in the Internet stays there..', especially for data under Open
> Licenses, which I think is true.
>
> The other option left was to build a platform where P2P projects can enter
> their own data (so more like a "Yellow Pages"-concept). Of course by taking
> this way it might be much harder to get enough projects participating.
> On the other side, the preferred effect of establishing "links" between the
> projects should be better, since by entering their data, they're more
> involved in building up the website.
>
> But we found it very problematic to find an umbrella identity, where all
> those projects we would label as "P2P", would find themselves. For example
> here in Berlin there are many projects I'd label as "P2P" or "Community
> Economy", like collective bicycle repair workshops, while they'd never see
> themselves as such, but rather as "left(radical) grassroots project".
>
> And I think it's similar with many projects that see themselves as
> Community Economy, Solidarity Economy, Alternative Economy, P2P Economy,
> Open Source Economy, Gift Economy, Cooperative Economy, Non-capitalistic
> Economy etc... (or not even as "economy" at all)
>
> The  privacy issue might be hard to understand for non-German readers, but
> here it is a really big topic. Especially now with Google Street View, where
> even Government has intervened, and all German property owners and tenants
> now have the possibility to "opt out" before Street View starts in December
> (the house will be blackened out).
>
> If you can think of any good solutions, we're happy about suggestions and
> ideas.
>
> I still think it would be great to realize this together with
> OpenStreetMap.
>
> There already exist some great layers for OSM (
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenStreetMap#Usage) but I would say that
> until now it's still a bit complicated to enter data for most people, so a
> good interface is needed.
>
> For browsing OSM I can recommend www.khtml.org, it is much faster than the
> original openstreetmap.org and easier to use. (nice feature: "ticker"
> shows real-time-contributions to the map).
>
> Kind regards,
> Thomas
>
>
>
> On 02.09.2010 10:05, Thomas wrote:
>
> Hey Tino, Michel and everybody,
>
> my own programming skills are very limited but I contacted a befriended
> programmer of mine, and he is willing to help with putting it up. It won't
> be more difficult to enter data than in Google Maps. I can't tell yet if it
> is possible to import KML directly, but we can try.
>
> Of course nothing is wrong with putting up the Map of P2P Urbanism as
> planned parallel.
>
> It is no problem to show one or more layers of information and to put them
> together when needed.
>
> If we really manage to get it filled up with data, it can be a great source
> of information.
>
> It will be possible to see the data in two different modes:
> 1. Map View: filtered by information layer (category)
> 2. Table View: sometimes it is more convenient to see something like "all
> fablabs in the US" in a table view.
>
> The data can be exported as XML / CSV file, so people can use it for their
> own purposes.
>
> I will come back to you as soon as there's something to show.
>
> Thomas
>
> On 01.09.2010 17:15, tino rizzo wrote:
>
> Hi everybody,
>
> I have to be honest I didn't know about OSM and I thinks is a great service
> if can perform the same functions Gmap does (overlaying, etc.). I have just
> now registered but it will take me some time to learn it.
>
> Since somebody has already started to spread the link and work on of the
> p2p atlas on Gmap I was wondering whether it could be possible to upload a
> KML file afterwards into OSM. Yet It would be easier for people who are not
> used to OSM interface to work on Gmap but maybe I am wrong and Thomas can
> build something even easier.
>
> For the rest I agree with Michel as I don't think that combining everything
> in one map would be readable. Again If we can work for layers of information
> (P2P- urbanism, economy, manufacturing, etc.) it would be easier to then
> overlap them later.
>
> I look forward for practical feedbacks
>
> tino
>
>
> *AgaTino Rizzo*
>
> Cityleft - Open Source Urbanism
> http://www.cityleft.altervista.org/<http://teknologimalaysia.academia.edu/ATR>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 12:43 PM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Hi Thomas,
>>
>> ok for openstreetmap then,
>>
>> could you perhaps start up an application we can use, and we start with
>> geotagging and placing p2p places in it?
>>
>> I'm certainly willing to help with the compilation work, if someone else
>> starts up the infrastructure,
>>
>> I would consider this a very great enhancement for our work, and help
>> travelling peers worldwide to find contacts and places to visit and learn
>> from,
>>
>>  Michel
>>
>>   On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 4:13 PM, Thomas v. Loeffelholz <p2p at colby.de>wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Michel,
>>>
>>> we should reflect what the goal of mapping can be.
>>>
>>> 1. Of course the basic idea of maps is to give "coordinates" about places
>>> that fulfill a certain task. Like a person hiking in the mountains, happy
>>> about the shelter he finds on his map. For this reason it is good to have
>>> topic-specific maps.
>>>
>>> 2. In the general public discussion, you might find reports about hacker
>>> spaces, fablabs, ecovillages etc. Seldom you will read that they share a
>>> common ground, that they belong to the same idea of creating an alternative
>>> economy (each in its own way). Even inside these projects, the notion of a
>>> common ground is restricted. A broader map could create just that, the
>>> knowledge that there are "more out there". To create a common struggle for a
>>> P2P economy.
>>>
>>> I think these two goals can be combined perfectly. A well-designed
>>> mapping architecture could offer topic-specific maps, as well as the
>>> possibility to blend them, to merge them.
>>>
>>> 3. The information that we map should be Open Access, it should be a
>>> commons. The best legal construction to guarantee this at the moment is GPL
>>> or Creative Commons. None of these are compatible with Google Maps, so any
>>> P2P mapping project should be created with OpenStreetMap, where this
>>> licensing can be achieved.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Thomas
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 01.09.2010 08:29, Michel Bauwens wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear Thomas,
>>>
>>> I think it would be a mistake to do all things via a ff single map, as
>>> the p2p world is to all-encompassing
>>>
>>> but perhaps we can use the same system to do other maps on p2p
>>> activities,
>>>
>>> one I was thinking of was to identify concrete communities to visit, i.e.
>>> p2p 'places', like hacker labs, coworking hubs, and the like,
>>>
>>> Michel
>>>
>>>  On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 1:54 AM, Thomas v. Loeffelholz <p2p at colby.de>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear list members,
>>>>
>>>> I think that this topic is very important, and even though the project
>>>> mentioned is already quite interesting, maybe there is the possibility to
>>>> get a broader scope on it.
>>>>
>>>> What if we engange in a global "mapping of peer-production / alternative
>>>> economy" ?
>>>>
>>>> I quote Gibson-Graham ("Postcapitalist Politics"):
>>>> "[The practice of seeing and speaking economy differently] encourages us
>>>> to make visible the hidden and alternative economic activities that *
>>>> everywhere* abound, and to connect them through a language of economic
>>>> difference [..].
>>>> If we can begin to see noncapitalist activities as prevalent and viable,
>>>> we may be encouraged here and now to actively build on them to transform our
>>>> local economies."
>>>>
>>>> So I indeed think that it is important, to make these structures *
>>>> visible*, to make visible where peer-economy is lived already now. And
>>>> this should not only be restricted to p2p urbanism.
>>>>
>>>> Doesn't it already exist?
>>>> Of course there already exist many specific lists and maps, for
>>>> ecovillages, for fablabs, for hacker spaces, for social institutions etc.
>>>> But what if we manage to link them, to connect them, to make visible that
>>>> they share a common identity?
>>>>
>>>> How can we achieve that?
>>>> I know that P2P-Foundation is meant as a place where this can happen,
>>>> and the P2P-Foundation wiki probably tries to achieve just that and I think
>>>> it is already a great ressource.
>>>>
>>>> As it already happens in some Wikipedia articles, it would be great to
>>>> add coordinate-base data to the projects listed in the P2P-Wiki. A database
>>>> of P2P-Projects marked with geographic data can be the raw material for
>>>> building a real map of P2P-economy. Instead of Google, the best platform to
>>>> connect it with is OpenStreetMap, since only there it can truely stay
>>>> Creative Commons.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Thomas
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 31.08.2010 19:55, Michel Bauwens wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  Dear Chris, could you also publish the text below on the regular blog?
>>>> many thanks!   P2P-Urbanism World Atlas: Call for Participation
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    Dear all,
>>>>
>>>> this is a open invitation to take part to the editing of the
>>>> "P2P-Urbanism World Atlas".
>>>> The Atlas is based on Google Maps (
>>>> http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=110538348662963558317.00048e51c3b506aee559b&ll=51.234407,18.720703&spn=31.033478,93.076172&z=4<
>>>> http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=110538348662963558317.00048e51c3b506aee559b&ll=51.234407,18.720703&spn=31.033478,93.076172&z=4>
>>>> <
>>>> http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=110538348662963558317.00048e51c3b506aee559b&ll=51.234407,18.720703&spn=31.033478,93.076172&z=4<
>>>> http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=110538348662963558317.00048e51c3b506aee559b&ll=51.234407,18.720703&spn=31.033478,93.076172&z=4>>).
>>>> Markers on Gmap locate P2P urban interventions.
>>>>
>>>> According to the ongoing debate on P2P urbanism we are filtering urban
>>>> interventions (implemented projects) fitting in the following statement:
>>>> /
>>>> P2P Urbanism may be understood as that collection of temporary,
>>>> long-term as well as digital urban interventions carried out cooperatively
>>>> by, amongst others, inhabitants, professionals, NGOs, public agencies,
>>>> researchers, activists, artists, sociologists, and urban scientists meant to
>>>> study, construct, and repair the city in a way that anyone may choose,
>>>> participate, share, and modify theories, methods, and implementation
>>>> technologies at any one time./
>>>>
>>>> Therefore we are looking for long-term, urban interventions as well as
>>>> smaller, temporary urban and diital interventions which can be understood
>>>> and interpret as P2P urban philosophy. A legend has been used to
>>>> discriminate among:
>>>>
>>>> (blue) = temporary P2P urban interventions
>>>> (red) = long-term P2P urban interventions
>>>> (green) = other P2P urban-related interventions
>>>>
>>>> A yellow marker contains instructions and information.
>>>>
>>>> To take part to the World Atlas project you should send your Gmail
>>>> account to cityleft at gmail.com <mailto:cityleft at gmail.com> <mailto:
>>>> cityleft at gmail.com <mailto:cityleft at gmail.com>>. Our ambition is to
>>>> discover an cover every region of the world in which P2P urban interventions
>>>> have taken place.
>>>>
>>>> You may invite other participants to this project. Since the Atlas is at
>>>> very beginning we expect that some changes will occur in the structure of
>>>> the given information in some time. Participants will be notified of such
>>>> changes. The target is to complete the map before next spring when a
>>>> conference on P2P urbanism will be organized in Rome.
>>>>
>>>> A Google group has been created to allow feedbacks among participants.
>>>> Only active participants to the Atlas project may visualize and take part to
>>>> the group.
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> * AgaTino Rizzo *
>>>>
>>>> Cityleft - Open Source Urbanism
>>>> http://www.cityleft.altervista.org/ <
>>>> http://teknologimalaysia.academia.edu/ATR>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>> From: Giuseppe Silvi <giuseppesilvi at yahoo.it>
>>>> Date: Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 5:45 PM
>>>> Subject: "P2P-Urbanism World Atlas" and PHILIPS LIVABLE CITIES AWARD
>>>> (deadline 28 Oct 2010)
>>>> To: Stefano Serafini <metafrasis at alice.it>
>>>> Cc: Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>, Antonio Caperna <
>>>> antonio.caperna at yahoo.it>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   dear all,
>>>>
>>>>  1)
>>>> a thank you to Stefano for the "Invitation to take part to the editing
>>>> of the "P2P-Urbanism World Atlas"
>>>> ... for sure  I'll involve the "laquila99.tv's people in taking part to
>>>> this valuable initiative
>>>>
>>>>  2)
>>>> in my opinion there is a chance to present an idea in the context of the
>>>> "P2P-Urbanism World Atlas" initiative to the "*PHILIPS LIVABLE CITIES
>>>> AWARD" *
>>>> http://www.because.philips.com/livable-cities-award
>>>> http://www.because.philips.com
>>>>
>>>>  I have been studying the PHILIPS site since some weeks  ..... I am
>>>> ready to coordinate a team of which I hope you want to be part in order to
>>>> present an idea to this award within the deadline fixed for the 28th Oct
>>>> 2010.
>>>>
>>>>  Some interesting VIDEOS from PHILIPS:
>>>> http://www.youtube.com/user/bitwatt#p/f/6/-wmiNhkptQw
>>>> http://www.youtube.com/user/bitwatt#p/f/7/ePeor5334sQ
>>>>
>>>>  Please send me a feedback and your considerations on the PHILIPS
>>>> LIVABLE CITIES AWARD.
>>>>
>>>>  The best
>>>> Giuseppe
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    ------------------------------
>>>> *Da:* Stefano Serafini <metafrasis at alice.it>
>>>> *A:* Giuseppe Silvi <giuseppesilvi at yahoo.it>
>>>> *Inviato:* Ven 27 agosto 2010, 23:33:20
>>>> *Oggetto:* Invitation to take part to the editing of the "P2P-Urbanism
>>>> World Atlas"
>>>>
>>>> Caro Giuseppe,
>>>>
>>>> come sai il Gruppo Salìngaros sta organizzando un importante convegno
>>>> sull'urbanistica e l'architettura a misura umana per il prossimo febbario,
>>>> che si terrà a Roma coinvolgendo nomi importanti della filosofia, della
>>>> sociologia, e della scienza, oltre ad alcuni esponenti politici interessati
>>>> una volta tanto ad ascoltare; ma soprattutto giovani studiosi brillanti, che
>>>> come tali insegnano e ricercano all'estero, visto che in patria i baroni non
>>>> li farebbero nemmeno respirare.
>>>>
>>>> Ora, la P2P Foundation, Michel Bauwens, e aun gruppo di giovani
>>>> urbanisti, programmatori e teorici, organizza insieme a noi un altro
>>>> convegno che si incrocerà con quello romano e ne farà parte: solo che sarà
>>>> mondiale, e si svolgerà tutto online, per il tremite di una ventina di
>>>> interviste che caricheremo sul web, dedicate al tema del P2P Urbanism.
>>>>
>>>> Ho pensato di coinvolgerti insieme agli amici di L'Aquila99.tv, visto
>>>> che - mi pare - siamo davvero in tema, e in linea.
>>>>
>>>> Qui sotto trovi l'invito a partecipare al primo step di questa avventura
>>>> open-source. Se devo fare qualcosa fammelo sapere, ma penso che tu hai
>>>> abbastanza canali da dare il booster alla faccenda...
>>>>
>>>> A presto e cari saluti,
>>>>
>>>> Stefano
>>>>
>>>> P.S. Hai voluto la bicicletta...? ;-)
>>>>
>>>> tino rizzo пишет:
>>>> Dear all,
>>>>
>>>> this is a open invitation to take part to the editing of the
>>>> "P2P-Urbanism World Atlas".
>>>> The Atlas is based on Google Maps (
>>>> http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=110538348662963558317.00048e51c3b506aee559b&ll=51.234407,18.720703&spn=31.033478,93.076172&z=4<
>>>> http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=110538348662963558317.00048e51c3b506aee559b&ll=51.234407,18.720703&spn=31.033478,93.076172&z=4>
>>>> <
>>>> http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=110538348662963558317.00048e51c3b506aee559b&ll=51.234407,18.720703&spn=31.033478,93.076172&z=4<
>>>> http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=110538348662963558317.00048e51c3b506aee559b&ll=51.234407,18.720703&spn=31.033478,93.076172&z=4>>).
>>>> Markers on Gmap locate P2P urban interventions.
>>>>
>>>> According to the ongoing debate on P2P urbanism we are filtering urban
>>>> interventions (implemented projects) fitting in the following statement:
>>>> /
>>>> P2P Urbanism may be understood as that collection of temporary,
>>>> long-term as well as digital urban interventions carried out cooperatively
>>>> by, amongst others, inhabitants, professionals, NGOs, public agencies,
>>>> researchers, activists, artists, sociologists, and urban scientists meant to
>>>> study, construct, and repair the city in a way that anyone may choose,
>>>> participate, share, and modify theories, methods, and implementation
>>>> technologies at any one time./
>>>>
>>>> Therefore we are looking for long-term, urban interventions as well as
>>>> smaller, temporary urban and diital interventions which can be understood
>>>> and interpret as P2P urban philosophy. A legend has been used to
>>>> discriminate among:
>>>>
>>>> (blue) = temporary P2P urban interventions
>>>> (red) = long-term P2P urban interventions
>>>> (green) = other P2P urban-related interventions
>>>>
>>>> A yellow marker contains instructions and information.
>>>>
>>>> To take part to the World Atlas project you should send your Gmail
>>>> account to cityleft at gmail.com <mailto:cityleft at gmail.com> <mailto:
>>>> cityleft at gmail.com <mailto:cityleft at gmail.com>>. Our ambition is to
>>>> discover an cover every region of the world in which P2P urban interventions
>>>> have taken place.
>>>>
>>>> You may invite other participants to this project. Since the Atlas is at
>>>> very beginning we expect that some changes will occur in the structure of
>>>> the given information in some time. Participants will be notified of such
>>>> changes. The target is to complete the map before next spring when a
>>>> conference on P2P urbanism will be organized in Rome.
>>>>
>>>> A Google group has been created to allow feedbacks among participants.
>>>> Only active participants to the Atlas project may visualize and take part to
>>>> the group.
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> * AgaTino Rizzo *
>>>>
>>>> Cityleft - Open Source Urbanism
>>>> http://www.cityleft.altervista.org/ <
>>>> http://teknologimalaysia.academia.edu/ATR>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  -
>>>> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>>>>
>>>> Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
>>>> http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
>>>>
>>>> Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
>>>> http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>>>>
>>>> Think tank:
>>>> http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> p2presearch mailing listp2presearch at listcultures.org
>>>> http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  -
>>> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>>>
>>> Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
>>> http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
>>>
>>> Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
>>> http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>>>
>>> Think tank: http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>>
>> Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
>> http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
>>
>> Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
>> http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>>
>> Think tank: http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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>
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-- 
P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net

Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org

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