[p2p-research] Mapping P2P, was: Re: Fwd: "P2P-Urbanism World Atlas"
Michel Bauwens
michelsub2004 at gmail.com
Thu Sep 2 05:38:29 CEST 2010
Dear Tino,
I asked Chris to post your announcement on our regular blog,
please confirm that you will still be using gmap and Chris can then post it,
Michel
On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 10:15 PM, tino rizzo <cityleft at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi everybody,
>
> I have to be honest I didn't know about OSM and I thinks is a great service
> if can perform the same functions Gmap does (overlaying, etc.). I have just
> now registered but it will take me some time to learn it.
>
> Since somebody has already started to spread the link and work on of the
> p2p atlas on Gmap I was wondering whether it could be possible to upload a
> KML file afterwards into OSM. Yet It would be easier for people who are not
> used to OSM interface to work on Gmap but maybe I am wrong and Thomas can
> build something even easier.
>
> For the rest I agree with Michel as I don't think that combining everything
> in one map would be readable. Again If we can work for layers of information
> (P2P- urbanism, economy, manufacturing, etc.) it would be easier to then
> overlap them later.
>
> I look forward for practical feedbacks
>
> tino
>
>
>
> *AgaTino Rizzo*
>
> Cityleft - Open Source Urbanism
> http://www.cityleft.altervista.org/<http://teknologimalaysia.academia.edu/ATR><http://teknologimalaysia.academia.edu/ATR>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 12:43 PM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
>> Hi Thomas,
>>
>> ok for openstreetmap then,
>>
>> could you perhaps start up an application we can use, and we start with
>> geotagging and placing p2p places in it?
>>
>> I'm certainly willing to help with the compilation work, if someone else
>> starts up the infrastructure,
>>
>> I would consider this a very great enhancement for our work, and help
>> travelling peers worldwide to find contacts and places to visit and learn
>> from,
>>
>> Michel
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 4:13 PM, Thomas v. Loeffelholz <p2p at colby.de>wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Michel,
>>>
>>> we should reflect what the goal of mapping can be.
>>>
>>> 1. Of course the basic idea of maps is to give "coordinates" about places
>>> that fulfill a certain task. Like a person hiking in the mountains, happy
>>> about the shelter he finds on his map. For this reason it is good to have
>>> topic-specific maps.
>>>
>>> 2. In the general public discussion, you might find reports about hacker
>>> spaces, fablabs, ecovillages etc. Seldom you will read that they share a
>>> common ground, that they belong to the same idea of creating an alternative
>>> economy (each in its own way). Even inside these projects, the notion of a
>>> common ground is restricted. A broader map could create just that, the
>>> knowledge that there are "more out there". To create a common struggle for a
>>> P2P economy.
>>>
>>> I think these two goals can be combined perfectly. A well-designed
>>> mapping architecture could offer topic-specific maps, as well as the
>>> possibility to blend them, to merge them.
>>>
>>> 3. The information that we map should be Open Access, it should be a
>>> commons. The best legal construction to guarantee this at the moment is GPL
>>> or Creative Commons. None of these are compatible with Google Maps, so any
>>> P2P mapping project should be created with OpenStreetMap, where this
>>> licensing can be achieved.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Thomas
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 01.09.2010 08:29, Michel Bauwens wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear Thomas,
>>>
>>> I think it would be a mistake to do all things via a ff single map, as
>>> the p2p world is to all-encompassing
>>>
>>> but perhaps we can use the same system to do other maps on p2p
>>> activities,
>>>
>>> one I was thinking of was to identify concrete communities to visit, i.e.
>>> p2p 'places', like hacker labs, coworking hubs, and the like,
>>>
>>> Michel
>>>
>>> On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 1:54 AM, Thomas v. Loeffelholz <p2p at colby.de>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear list members,
>>>>
>>>> I think that this topic is very important, and even though the project
>>>> mentioned is already quite interesting, maybe there is the possibility to
>>>> get a broader scope on it.
>>>>
>>>> What if we engange in a global "mapping of peer-production / alternative
>>>> economy" ?
>>>>
>>>> I quote Gibson-Graham ("Postcapitalist Politics"):
>>>> "[The practice of seeing and speaking economy differently] encourages us
>>>> to make visible the hidden and alternative economic activities that *
>>>> everywhere* abound, and to connect them through a language of economic
>>>> difference [..].
>>>> If we can begin to see noncapitalist activities as prevalent and viable,
>>>> we may be encouraged here and now to actively build on them to transform our
>>>> local economies."
>>>>
>>>> So I indeed think that it is important, to make these structures *
>>>> visible*, to make visible where peer-economy is lived already now. And
>>>> this should not only be restricted to p2p urbanism.
>>>>
>>>> Doesn't it already exist?
>>>> Of course there already exist many specific lists and maps, for
>>>> ecovillages, for fablabs, for hacker spaces, for social institutions etc.
>>>> But what if we manage to link them, to connect them, to make visible that
>>>> they share a common identity?
>>>>
>>>> How can we achieve that?
>>>> I know that P2P-Foundation is meant as a place where this can happen,
>>>> and the P2P-Foundation wiki probably tries to achieve just that and I think
>>>> it is already a great ressource.
>>>>
>>>> As it already happens in some Wikipedia articles, it would be great to
>>>> add coordinate-base data to the projects listed in the P2P-Wiki. A database
>>>> of P2P-Projects marked with geographic data can be the raw material for
>>>> building a real map of P2P-economy. Instead of Google, the best platform to
>>>> connect it with is OpenStreetMap, since only there it can truely stay
>>>> Creative Commons.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Thomas
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 31.08.2010 19:55, Michel Bauwens wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Dear Chris, could you also publish the text below on the regular blog?
>>>> many thanks! P2P-Urbanism World Atlas: Call for Participation
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dear all,
>>>>
>>>> this is a open invitation to take part to the editing of the
>>>> "P2P-Urbanism World Atlas".
>>>> The Atlas is based on Google Maps (
>>>> http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=110538348662963558317.00048e51c3b506aee559b&ll=51.234407,18.720703&spn=31.033478,93.076172&z=4<
>>>> http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=110538348662963558317.00048e51c3b506aee559b&ll=51.234407,18.720703&spn=31.033478,93.076172&z=4>
>>>> <
>>>> http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=110538348662963558317.00048e51c3b506aee559b&ll=51.234407,18.720703&spn=31.033478,93.076172&z=4<
>>>> http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=110538348662963558317.00048e51c3b506aee559b&ll=51.234407,18.720703&spn=31.033478,93.076172&z=4>>).
>>>> Markers on Gmap locate P2P urban interventions.
>>>>
>>>> According to the ongoing debate on P2P urbanism we are filtering urban
>>>> interventions (implemented projects) fitting in the following statement:
>>>> /
>>>> P2P Urbanism may be understood as that collection of temporary,
>>>> long-term as well as digital urban interventions carried out cooperatively
>>>> by, amongst others, inhabitants, professionals, NGOs, public agencies,
>>>> researchers, activists, artists, sociologists, and urban scientists meant to
>>>> study, construct, and repair the city in a way that anyone may choose,
>>>> participate, share, and modify theories, methods, and implementation
>>>> technologies at any one time./
>>>>
>>>> Therefore we are looking for long-term, urban interventions as well as
>>>> smaller, temporary urban and diital interventions which can be understood
>>>> and interpret as P2P urban philosophy. A legend has been used to
>>>> discriminate among:
>>>>
>>>> (blue) = temporary P2P urban interventions
>>>> (red) = long-term P2P urban interventions
>>>> (green) = other P2P urban-related interventions
>>>>
>>>> A yellow marker contains instructions and information.
>>>>
>>>> To take part to the World Atlas project you should send your Gmail
>>>> account to cityleft at gmail.com <mailto:cityleft at gmail.com> <mailto:
>>>> cityleft at gmail.com <mailto:cityleft at gmail.com>>. Our ambition is to
>>>> discover an cover every region of the world in which P2P urban interventions
>>>> have taken place.
>>>>
>>>> You may invite other participants to this project. Since the Atlas is at
>>>> very beginning we expect that some changes will occur in the structure of
>>>> the given information in some time. Participants will be notified of such
>>>> changes. The target is to complete the map before next spring when a
>>>> conference on P2P urbanism will be organized in Rome.
>>>>
>>>> A Google group has been created to allow feedbacks among participants.
>>>> Only active participants to the Atlas project may visualize and take part to
>>>> the group.
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> * AgaTino Rizzo *
>>>>
>>>> Cityleft - Open Source Urbanism
>>>> http://www.cityleft.altervista.org/ <
>>>> http://teknologimalaysia.academia.edu/ATR>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>> From: Giuseppe Silvi <giuseppesilvi at yahoo.it>
>>>> Date: Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 5:45 PM
>>>> Subject: "P2P-Urbanism World Atlas" and PHILIPS LIVABLE CITIES AWARD
>>>> (deadline 28 Oct 2010)
>>>> To: Stefano Serafini <metafrasis at alice.it>
>>>> Cc: Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>, Antonio Caperna <
>>>> antonio.caperna at yahoo.it>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> dear all,
>>>>
>>>> 1)
>>>> a thank you to Stefano for the "Invitation to take part to the editing
>>>> of the "P2P-Urbanism World Atlas"
>>>> ... for sure I'll involve the "laquila99.tv's people in taking part to
>>>> this valuable initiative
>>>>
>>>> 2)
>>>> in my opinion there is a chance to present an idea in the context of the
>>>> "P2P-Urbanism World Atlas" initiative to the "*PHILIPS LIVABLE CITIES
>>>> AWARD" *
>>>> http://www.because.philips.com/livable-cities-award
>>>> http://www.because.philips.com
>>>>
>>>> I have been studying the PHILIPS site since some weeks ..... I am ready
>>>> to coordinate a team of which I hope you want to be part in order to present
>>>> an idea to this award within the deadline fixed for the 28th Oct 2010.
>>>>
>>>> Some interesting VIDEOS from PHILIPS:
>>>> http://www.youtube.com/user/bitwatt#p/f/6/-wmiNhkptQw
>>>> http://www.youtube.com/user/bitwatt#p/f/7/ePeor5334sQ
>>>>
>>>> Please send me a feedback and your considerations on the PHILIPS LIVABLE
>>>> CITIES AWARD.
>>>>
>>>> The best
>>>> Giuseppe
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> *Da:* Stefano Serafini <metafrasis at alice.it>
>>>> *A:* Giuseppe Silvi <giuseppesilvi at yahoo.it>
>>>> *Inviato:* Ven 27 agosto 2010, 23:33:20
>>>> *Oggetto:* Invitation to take part to the editing of the "P2P-Urbanism
>>>> World Atlas"
>>>>
>>>> Caro Giuseppe,
>>>>
>>>> come sai il Gruppo Salìngaros sta organizzando un importante convegno
>>>> sull'urbanistica e l'architettura a misura umana per il prossimo febbario,
>>>> che si terrà a Roma coinvolgendo nomi importanti della filosofia, della
>>>> sociologia, e della scienza, oltre ad alcuni esponenti politici interessati
>>>> una volta tanto ad ascoltare; ma soprattutto giovani studiosi brillanti, che
>>>> come tali insegnano e ricercano all'estero, visto che in patria i baroni non
>>>> li farebbero nemmeno respirare.
>>>>
>>>> Ora, la P2P Foundation, Michel Bauwens, e aun gruppo di giovani
>>>> urbanisti, programmatori e teorici, organizza insieme a noi un altro
>>>> convegno che si incrocerà con quello romano e ne farà parte: solo che sarà
>>>> mondiale, e si svolgerà tutto online, per il tremite di una ventina di
>>>> interviste che caricheremo sul web, dedicate al tema del P2P Urbanism.
>>>>
>>>> Ho pensato di coinvolgerti insieme agli amici di L'Aquila99.tv, visto
>>>> che - mi pare - siamo davvero in tema, e in linea.
>>>>
>>>> Qui sotto trovi l'invito a partecipare al primo step di questa avventura
>>>> open-source. Se devo fare qualcosa fammelo sapere, ma penso che tu hai
>>>> abbastanza canali da dare il booster alla faccenda...
>>>>
>>>> A presto e cari saluti,
>>>>
>>>> Stefano
>>>>
>>>> P.S. Hai voluto la bicicletta...? ;-)
>>>>
>>>> tino rizzo пишет:
>>>> Dear all,
>>>>
>>>> this is a open invitation to take part to the editing of the
>>>> "P2P-Urbanism World Atlas".
>>>> The Atlas is based on Google Maps (
>>>> http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=110538348662963558317.00048e51c3b506aee559b&ll=51.234407,18.720703&spn=31.033478,93.076172&z=4<
>>>> http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=110538348662963558317.00048e51c3b506aee559b&ll=51.234407,18.720703&spn=31.033478,93.076172&z=4>
>>>> <
>>>> http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=110538348662963558317.00048e51c3b506aee559b&ll=51.234407,18.720703&spn=31.033478,93.076172&z=4<
>>>> http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=110538348662963558317.00048e51c3b506aee559b&ll=51.234407,18.720703&spn=31.033478,93.076172&z=4>>).
>>>> Markers on Gmap locate P2P urban interventions.
>>>>
>>>> According to the ongoing debate on P2P urbanism we are filtering urban
>>>> interventions (implemented projects) fitting in the following statement:
>>>> /
>>>> P2P Urbanism may be understood as that collection of temporary,
>>>> long-term as well as digital urban interventions carried out cooperatively
>>>> by, amongst others, inhabitants, professionals, NGOs, public agencies,
>>>> researchers, activists, artists, sociologists, and urban scientists meant to
>>>> study, construct, and repair the city in a way that anyone may choose,
>>>> participate, share, and modify theories, methods, and implementation
>>>> technologies at any one time./
>>>>
>>>> Therefore we are looking for long-term, urban interventions as well as
>>>> smaller, temporary urban and diital interventions which can be understood
>>>> and interpret as P2P urban philosophy. A legend has been used to
>>>> discriminate among:
>>>>
>>>> (blue) = temporary P2P urban interventions
>>>> (red) = long-term P2P urban interventions
>>>> (green) = other P2P urban-related interventions
>>>>
>>>> A yellow marker contains instructions and information.
>>>>
>>>> To take part to the World Atlas project you should send your Gmail
>>>> account to cityleft at gmail.com <mailto:cityleft at gmail.com> <mailto:
>>>> cityleft at gmail.com <mailto:cityleft at gmail.com>>. Our ambition is to
>>>> discover an cover every region of the world in which P2P urban interventions
>>>> have taken place.
>>>>
>>>> You may invite other participants to this project. Since the Atlas is at
>>>> very beginning we expect that some changes will occur in the structure of
>>>> the given information in some time. Participants will be notified of such
>>>> changes. The target is to complete the map before next spring when a
>>>> conference on P2P urbanism will be organized in Rome.
>>>>
>>>> A Google group has been created to allow feedbacks among participants.
>>>> Only active participants to the Atlas project may visualize and take part to
>>>> the group.
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> * AgaTino Rizzo *
>>>>
>>>> Cityleft - Open Source Urbanism
>>>> http://www.cityleft.altervista.org/ <
>>>> http://teknologimalaysia.academia.edu/ATR>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net -
>>>> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>>>>
>>>> Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
>>>> http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
>>>>
>>>> Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
>>>> http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>>>>
>>>> Think tank:
>>>> http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>> p2presearch mailing listp2presearch at listcultures.org
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net -
>>> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>>>
>>> Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
>>> http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
>>>
>>> Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
>>> http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>>>
>>> Think tank: http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>>
>> Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
>> http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
>>
>> Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
>> http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>>
>> Think tank: http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
--
P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
Think tank: http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
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