[p2p-research] P2P Foundation and Las Indias
Michel Bauwens
michelsub2004 at gmail.com
Tue Nov 23 12:43:42 CET 2010
thanks a lot, and as a reminder, searching "David de Ugarte" in both the
wiki and blog search boxes will already uncover a lot of material on the
lasindias approach,
Michel
2010/11/23 Sociedad Cooperativa de las Indias Electrónicas <
info at lasindias.coop>
> We the will prepare a «basic Indianopedia in English» with the subjects
> Natalia addressed, so the papers she talk about become as public as easy
> accessible.
>
> More news in the next days...
>
> El 22/11/10 20:28, Michel Bauwens escribió:
>
>> Many thanks for these details,
>> Sam, Franco and James have already indicated/responded that they are
>> willing to participate in the to be created coop, and we will create a
>> new list to discuss this project, so as not to burden the regular list,
>> In the meantime, we can still discuss on the p2p list, so everyone is
>> aware of this new plan,
>> Michel
>>
>> 2010/11/22 Sociedad de las Indias Electrónicas <info at lasindias.coop
>> <mailto:info at lasindias.coop>>
>>
>>
>> Hi!
>>
>> Here is our publishing model:
>>
>> 1. We only publish works by contemporary authors -no matter what the
>> case of poetry, essays or narrative- under public domain, preferably
>> written in latoc language (Spanish, Portuguese, Galician, Asturian,
>> etc.).
>>
>> 2. The paper editions are sold to the public at 9 € and 7 € for
>> organizers of events, but the electronic formats are freely
>> distributed. The 90% of sellings are made in public events.
>>
>> 3. Our model is based on facilitating the direct relationship
>> between authors and readers. So the paper distribution centers not
>> in bookstores but in presentations and small events for between 50
>> and 200 people where the author can interact with readers. In the
>> old publishing model the reader paid for an item that allowed him
>> access to content, in our model has free access to content and pays
>> to receive an object, the paper-book linked to this moment when he
>> met and possibly spoke with the author.
>>
>> 4. Our books are living-books. The paper editions are adapted to
>> these «situations» in which the author and the reader meet and have
>> face to face conversations. For every event's print the author can
>> edit content, add prologues or epilogues, etc.. depending on the
>> tone the author wants to give to the meeting with a specific audience.
>>
>> 5. The length of the works is around 15,000 words -about 100 pages-
>> for assays and 30.000 for narrative, free for poetry.
>>
>> María Rodríguez
>>
>>
>> On 21/11/10 13:42, Michel Bauwens wrote:
>>
>>> this process is exactly what I was referring to in my email just send,
>>> so give me time until December, and I will digest this proposal
>>> and respond to it,
>>> but indeed, this is the way to go in my opinion,
>>> I'm also copying Franco Iacomella, a young argentinian who has
>>> expressed interest in working together on the creation of the p2p
>>> phyle,
>>> Michel
>>>
>>> 2010/11/21 Sociedad Cooperativa de las Indias Electrónicas
>>> <info at lasindias.coop <mailto:info at lasindias.coop>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear Michel,
>>>
>>> (más abajo en español)
>>>
>>> For us it is more than good news: we believe is the first step
>>> of something really deep and transformative.
>>>
>>> Over the years the phyle model has gained richness, complexity
>>> and subtlety. Economically it is, increasingly, an onion
>>> structure where each level of community identity and personal
>>> commitment has been developing its own space through the
>>> relationships between affiliated enterprises, cooperatives and
>>> community in the strict sense. Politically, this nebula
>>> appears as a web of foundations, publishers, and nonprofit
>>> associations.
>>>
>>> There is no recipe but a decade of experience to share with
>>> the network of "p2p foundation" in order to make your own
>>> theoretical digestion about it.
>>>
>>> Discussing over the weekend from your message, think we ought
>>> to give us an agenda for discussion and work.
>>>
>>> First we are committed to developing a series of papers
>>>
>>> 1. How is it organized the economic structure of our phyle?
>>>
>>> 2. How do we ensure the hegemony of the deliberative process
>>> on the logic of the economic structure?
>>>
>>> 3. The role of foundations (public infrastructure of knowledge
>>> and transnational initiatives)
>>>
>>> 4. Publishing model
>>>
>>> 5. The Indiano view on the global economic framework of
>>> "decomposition" (what we call "the futures to come)
>>>
>>> After sharing this context p2pf and las Indias could address
>>> an agenda of cooperation with the objective of:
>>>
>>> 1. Creating tools to extend the deliberative space,
>>> translating and distributing monthly to the different
>>> languages an abstract of the major debates in each network.
>>>
>>> 2. Building a transnational network and multi-language
>>> publications in the public domain in both paper and electronic
>>> formats.
>>>
>>> 3. Organizing a system of workshops and consulting with the
>>> goal of providing the knowledge tools to build the economic
>>> structure necessary to become phyle.
>>>
>>> The starting point of this agenda could be in March-April
>>> 2011, when the "Third Transnational Meeting on Economic
>>> Democracy" will be celebrated.
>>>
>>> Obviously the optimum physical place to keep this meeting
>>> should be chosen according to:
>>>
>>> * The physical location of those who wish to participate (with
>>> the aim of reducing total travel costs)
>>> * The costs of infrastructure and hotels (with the aim of
>>> reducing costs of accommodation)
>>> * The availability of a physical space for discussion given
>>> free to the event or at least at low cost.
>>>
>>> If you agree, we will begin preparing the papers this week to
>>> explain to your network the economic structure of las Indias.
>>>
>>> And if you find the proposed agenda interesting and
>>> affordable, we can all start working on the horizon on March 21.
>>>
>>> A big hug
>>>
>>> Natalia
>>>
>>>
>>> Querido Michel,
>>>
>>> Para nosotros es más que una buena noticia: creemos que es el
>>> primer paso de algo realmente más profundo y transformador.
>>>
>>> Con los años el modelo de la phyle ha ganado riqueza,
>>> complejidad y sutileza. Economicamente es, cada día más, una
>>> estructura cebolla donde cada nivel de identidad comunitaria y
>>> compromiso personal ha ido desarrollando su propio espacio a
>>> través de las relaciones entre empresas participadas,
>>> cooperativas y comunidad en el sentido estricto.
>>> Políticamente esta nebulosa aparece como un tejido de
>>> fundaciones, editoriales y asociaciones sin ánimo de lucro.
>>>
>>> No hay una receta sino una década de experiencia que
>>> transmitir para que la red de la «p2p foundation» pueda hacer
>>> su propia digestión teórica sobre ello.
>>>
>>> Reflexionando a lo largo del fin de semana a partir de tu
>>> mensaje, pensamos que deberíamos darnos una agenda de
>>> discusión y trabajo.
>>>
>>> En primer lugar nos comprometemos a elaborar una serie de
>>> papeles breves explicando de manera sencilla:
>>>
>>> 1. ¿Cómo es organizada la estructura económica de la phyle
>>> indiana?
>>>
>>> 2. Cómo se asegura la hegemonía del proceso deliberativo sobre
>>> la lógica de la estructura económica?
>>>
>>> 3. El papel de las fundaciones (infraestructuras públicas de
>>> conocimiento e iniciativas transnacionales)
>>>
>>> 4. Modelo editorial
>>>
>>> 5. La mirada indiana sobre el marco socioeconómico global la
>>> «descomposición» (lo que llamamos «los futuros que vienen»)
>>>
>>> Tras compartir este contexto la p2pf y las Indias podríamos
>>> abordar conjuntamente una agenda de colaboración basada en:
>>>
>>> 1. Crear herramientas para ampliar el espacio deliberativo
>>> traduciendo y distribuyendo mensualmente a las diferentes
>>> lenguas los principales debates en cada red.
>>>
>>> 2. Contruir una red transnacional y multilingue de
>>> publicaciones bajo dominio público tanto en papel como en
>>> formato electrónico.
>>>
>>> 3. Organizar un sistema de talleres y consultoría con el
>>> objetivo de aportar las herramientas para que distintos grupos
>>> interesados puedan construir la estructura económica necesaria
>>> para devenir phyle.
>>>
>>> El punto de arranque de esta agenda podría situarse en
>>> marzo-abril de 2011, en el «III Encuentro Transnacional sobre
>>> Democracia Económica».
>>>
>>> Obviamente el lugar físico óptimo para mantener este encuentro
>>> deberá ser elegido en función de:
>>>
>>> * El lugar físico de los que deseen participar (con el
>>> objetivo de reducir costes totales de viaje)
>>> * La infraestructura y costes de hoteles (con el objetivo de
>>> reducir costes de alojamiento)
>>> * La disponibilidad de un espacio físico para la discusión
>>> cedido gratuitamente para el evento o al menos a bajo coste.
>>>
>>> Si estás de acuerdo, comenzaremos esta semana preparando los
>>> papeles que expliquen a vuestra red la estructura económica de
>>> la phyle indiana.
>>>
>>> Y si la agenda propuesta os parece interesante y abordable,
>>> podemos empezar a trabajar sobre el horizonte del 21 de marzo.
>>>
>>> Un gran abrazo
>>>
>>> Natalia
>>>
>>> El 19/11/10 15:59, Michel Bauwens escribió:
>>>
>>> Dear friends,
>>> below is an important message, which I have not cleared with
>>> lasindias.net <http://lasindias.net/>
>>> <http://lasindias.net <http://lasindias.net/>>, but
>>>
>>> reflects my understanding of
>>>
>>> our talks in Madrid, of the importance of their
>>> contribution, and on a
>>> further cooperation,
>>> I'm publishing this on the 24th on the blog,
>>> Michel Bauwens
>>> The next “five year plan” of the P2P Foundation:
>>> constructing livelihood
>>> through phyles <http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/?p=11782>
>>> photo of Michel Bauwens
>>> Michel Bauwens
>>> 24th November 2010
>>>
>>> *Towards a strategic relationship between the P2P
>>> Foundation and Las Indias*
>>>
>>> Regular readers of our blog will have noticed that I have paid
>>> substantial attention to my discovery of the
>>> Spanish-language network
>>> developed by lasindias.net <http://lasindias.net/>
>>> <http://lasindias.net <http://lasindias.net/>>, which I
>>>
>>> hadn’t
>>>
>>> previously encountered.
>>> Las Indias, is a cooperative, a neomedieval ‘neo-Venetian’
>>> guild
>>> structure that was rooted in cyberpunk literature and is
>>> devoted to the
>>> globalization of small entrepreneurs. As a entrepreneurial
>>> but fraternal
>>> structure, it fully engages not only in providing its
>>> members with a
>>> current livelihood, but with full future security. Las
>>> Indias fully
>>> adopts and practices the open ethos, uses decision-making
>>> through
>>> deliberation, and is committed to splitting into
>>> autonomous units,
>>> whenever the Dunbar limit is reached.
>>>
>>> Recently, I covered the three books, recently translated,
>>> in which David
>>> de Ugarte and others from lasindias.net
>>> <http://lasindias.net/> <http://lasindias.net
>>>
>>> <http://lasindias.net/>>, offer
>>>
>>> their take on the history of economic forms (Phyles:
>>> Economic Democracy
>>> of the Network Age); a history of governance forms (From
>>> Nations to
>>> Networks), and a history of civil society itself (The Power of
>>> Networks). There are well-thought out interpretations of
>>> where we are
>>> going and how networks are changing the fundamental nature
>>> of our social
>>> organization.
>>>
>>> The key insight for me is their argument for the creation
>>> of phyles.
>>> Indeed, it was a missing piece of the puzzle in my own
>>> peer to peer
>>> theory. We have been able to describe the emergence of
>>> peer production,
>>> governance, and property; we have been able to describe
>>> the emergence of
>>> open business models, mostly noticing how companies are
>>> adapting to
>>> communities. But at the same time, we also know that there
>>> is not a
>>> clear choice available for peer producers who want to go
>>> their own way.
>>> We have successfully democratized the means of creating
>>> value, but have
>>> not been able to democratize the means of realizing that
>>> value. Creating
>>> livelihood independently of the capital players that
>>> profit from our
>>> social cooperation and obtain asymmetrical
>>> hyper-competitivity through
>>> our contributions, remains an arduous task. Localization
>>> through global
>>> open design communities is still mostly an effort to avoid the
>>> dislocation of the global meltdown, it’s a strategy of
>>> resilience, not
>>> yet of thrivability; and the nation state is increasingly
>>> failing us,
>>> with what remains of the welfare state under a violent
>>> assault of
>>> extreme neoliberalism. We create increasing surplus value,
>>> but we don’t
>>> capture it, this is the crux of the matter.
>>>
>>> Las Indias on the other hand, asks the right question, and
>>> in my
>>> opinion, gives the right answer.
>>>
>>> *The question is: what do distributed networks really
>>> bring to the
>>> table, that is new and unique, and points the way forward?*
>>>
>>> The answer: it is a new form of human socialization around
>>> the creation
>>> of common value. Distributed networks do not just change
>>> localism and
>>> the nation-state, but create the possibility of creating
>>> transnational
>>> value networks, used by communities in order to sustain
>>> their common
>>> work. In other words, we are not just talking about
>>> entrepreneurs and
>>> businesses adapting to co-production and communities, BUT,
>>> we are
>>> talking about communities creating their own
>>> mission-oriented business
>>> forms, in which the market activity is subsumed to the
>>> common value.
>>> This creates sustainability and livelihoods for the
>>> individuals
>>> involved; subsumes the profit maximization of the
>>> marketplace to higher
>>> ethical values which constrain it to the value commons;
>>> and captures the
>>> surplus value directly for the peer producers.
>>>
>>> There are a lot of exciting things to say about the internal
>>> organization of the Las Indias phyle, which is a
>>> combination of elements
>>> of cooperatives, decision through deliberation, the
>>> gradation of
>>> knowledge skills taken from the guild system, etc … The
>>> reality is that,
>>> in a world where precarity is the norm for many peer
>>> producers, the
>>> phyle is a efficacious solidarity mechanism. Next to
>>> liberty and
>>> equality, it brings the missing fraternity to the table of
>>> social
>>> practice, in a new transnational format that transcends
>>> the limitations
>>> of the nation-state, and is rooted in a true human community.
>>> Therefore, it is now clear to me that the central task of
>>> the P2P
>>> Foundation, after five years of creating a global
>>> knowledge commons in
>>> conditions of precarity, is, for the next five years, to
>>> focus on the
>>> sustainability of the common work, by creating appropriate
>>> livelihoods,
>>> through the creation of a phyle.
>>>
>>> The way I see it, we are going through a major cultural,
>>> political,
>>> economic transition; nothing less than a revolution and phase
>>> transition; the P2P Foundation wants to position itself as
>>> one of the
>>> trusted players that can offer guidance and learning in this
>>> transformation, on both individual and collective levels.
>>> The knowledge
>>> commons will continue to evolve and improve, but an added
>>> layer of
>>> activity will offer useful services that can generate income.
>>>
>>> My visit last month, where I spent two days socializing
>>> with lasindias
>>> in Madrid, showed that we are operating on the same
>>> wavelength, and that
>>> there is strong mutual sympathy. Therefore, there is a
>>> priori agreement,
>>> which still needs to be worked out in detail, to form a
>>> strategic
>>> relationship. Lasindias will help us create a phyle, and
>>> we will help to
>>> spread the key insight of phyles in the English-speaking
>>> world, while
>>> creating first-class educational material to go through
>>> the transition
>>> period unscathed, coming out with the thrivability
>>> associated with
>>> providing useful services to society.
>>>
>>> How exactly the P2P Foundation phyle will look, is still
>>> an open
>>> question, as I do have anxieties and reservations about
>>> the full
>>> communal level that is at the heart of Las Indias. Las
>>> Indias has a very
>>> strong ‘social market’ orientation, rather than our own
>>> commons’
>>> orientation. So there are differences, and their will
>>> remain a diversity
>>> in our cooperation. The way I envision it, is the
>>> following: the peer to
>>> peer revolution is a deep cultural, political, economic
>>> and social
>>> transformation, which will require a very broad ‘church’
>>> of interlinked
>>> social movements. Within this broad movement, it is a very
>>> good thing
>>> that there is a very committed core, that lives their
>>> values to the
>>> fullest, and serves an inspiration and an example for others.
>>>
>>> In terms of P2P Theory as a guide to transformation, a
>>> very important
>>> missing piece of the puzzle has now been added. In the
>>> context of a
>>> failing nation-state, destructive globalized capitalism,
>>> there does
>>> exist a social form that is both local and global in form,
>>> and can
>>> provide security for its peer producing members.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net
>>> <http://p2pfoundation.net/> -
>>> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net <http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com
>>> <http://p2pfoundation.ning.com/>; Discuss:
>>>
>>> http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
>>>
>>> Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens;
>>> http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
>>> http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>>>
>>> Think tank:
>>> http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sociedad Cooperativa de las Indias Electrónicas
>>> Grupo Cooperativo de las Indias
>>> Barco, 37 - 28004 Madrid
>>> Florencio Escardó, 1486 - 11700 Montevideo
>>> http://lasindias.coop <http://lasindias.coop/>
>>> http://lasindias.info <http://lasindias.info/>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net
>>> <http://p2pfoundation.net/> - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>>> <http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/>
>>>
>>> Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com
>>> <http://p2pfoundation.ning.com/>; Discuss:
>>> http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
>>>
>>> Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens;
>>> http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens; http://twitter.com/mbauwens;
>>> http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>>>
>>> Think tank:
>>> http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Sociedad Cooperativa de las Indias Electrónicas
>> Grupo Cooperativo de las Indias
>> Barco, 37 - 28004 Madrid
>> Florencio Escardó, 1486 - 11700 Montevideo
>> http://lasindias.coop <http://lasindias.coop/>
>> http://lasindias.info <http://lasindias.info/>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>>
>> Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
>> http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
>>
>> Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
>> http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>>
>> Think tank: http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Sociedad Cooperativa de las Indias Electrónicas
> Grupo Cooperativo de las Indias
> Barco, 37 - 28004 Madrid
> Florencio Escardó, 1486 - 11700 Montevideo
> http://lasindias.coop
> http://lasindias.info
>
--
P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
Think tank: http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
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