[p2p-research] investment, productivity and ownership

Sat Nov 20 22:21:59 CET 2010

hi brian,

I'd like to propose a counter-narrative I once read in a eco journal, but
references are lost in the mist of time

2 professors with similar type of students,

one stresses the dire state of the environment, and urges students to be
critical and fight

the other takes them to the forests for foraging etc ..

five years later, both groups are compared, the first have (mostly) become
cynics and demoralized, while the second have (mostly) learned to love
nature and have become protectors ...

I think this is what p2p communities are doing, using the tools at their
disposals to become sustainable, creating communities and networks, learning
to love them, and wanting to protect them, not ouf of desire of apocalyptic
purity, but to protect the richness of their lives,

Michel

On Sun, Nov 21, 2010 at 2:56 AM, Brian Davey <briadavey at googlemail.com>wrote:

> If so this is largely about the psychology of presentation:
>
> There are different ways of understanding this:
>
> " I, for one, welcome the coming apocalypse. We can have a world where
> all a man needs to make his way is some stubble, a mullet and a sawn
> off shot gun, and woman are beautiful, deadly and clad in leather. One
> can live by your wits and your nerve, fending off hordes of mutants,
> cannibals and assorted beasts.
>
> "Much like Basingstoke on a Saturday night, in fact."
>
> On a less humorous note:
>
> "While fleeting reminders of death are shown to promote self
> interested and materialistic behaviour, folklore, philosophy and
> religion have long taught that that reflection on death 'concentrates
> the mind' in a way that makes possessions and social standing appear
> trivial and causes us to reflect on those deeper aspects of life that
> give our existence meaning. Those who have had near death experiences
> or life threatening illnesses are often transformed so that they see
> their lives as empty and self centred. 'Post traumatic growth theory'
> suggests that confrontation with one's mortality typically brings
> about a change in priorities, away from greed and vanity and towards
> greater emphasis on intimate relationships, a greater sense of
> personal strength, more openess to change and a deeper appreciation of
> life. Tests of the theory indicate that more sustained and considered
> reflection on death does indeed stimulate more intrinsic goals centred
> on building close relationships, personal growth and community
> betterment.....The expected effects of a changing climate over this
> century naturally stimulate thoughts of mortality - our own and those
> of our descendants, the vulnerable in poor countries and other
> species. We reflect too on the prospects for more abstract things like
> civilisation and progress. While it is tempting to suppress such
> thoughts, the evidence suggests that an open public engagement with
> notions of impermanence and death could have a salutary effect and
> contribute to a shift in value orientation that is both more mature
> and more protective of the environment. Reluctance to draw attention
> to the threats to our survival implied by the climate science fails to
> counter the tendency for people to resort to self focused and
> materialistic goals. Contrary to the prevailing 'don't scare the
> horses' approach of governments and environmental organisations, more
> conscious reflection on the meaning of climate disruption is likely to
> encourage more pro-social and less materialistic goals"
>
> From Clive Hamilton "Requiem for a Species" Earthscan p214 (re
> Basingstoke ) and pp216-217 for the last long quote.
>
> Clive Hamilton and psychologist Tim Kasser argued much the same thing
> in this paper,
>
> "Psychological Adaptation to the Threats and Stresses of a Four Degree
> World". A paper for “Four Degrees and Beyond” conference, held in 2009
> at Oxford University. Available at:
>
>
> http://www.clivehamilton.net.au/cms/media/documents/articles/oxford_four_degrees_paper_final.pdf
>
> Maybe we will have to agree to disagree again!
>
> All the best
>
> Brian
>
> On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 at 1:51 PM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Hi Brian, thanks for this, our blog is at http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
> >
> > The way I see it, you see the overshoot, and the necessary contraction as
> > primary, and you want to warn humanity about the necesary adaptation to
> an
> > age of scarcity,
> >
> > On my side, I believe that an overdue stress on the negative, is
> politically
> > counterproductive and drives people to political forces who still give
> them
> > hope,
> >
> > therefore, a narrative which acknowledges sufficiency and contraction,
> but
> > stresses the abundance and happiness that comes both from physical social
> > cooperation (relocalizing production), within a framework of global
> digital
> > cooperation (immaterial abundance), is more politically fruitful. (in
> > addition, I'm convinced that we need that collective intelligence to
> adapt
> > to coming emergencies in the first place)
> >
> > I could be wrong, but I think this is the most important point and the
> key
> > difference,
> >
> > Michel
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 at 5:54 PM, Brian Davey <briadavey at googlemail.com>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> I'm not quite sure where to find your blog on the p2p site!
> >>
> >> I was at the steady state conference where the presentation by Tim
> >> Jackson was shown. It was part of a much larger day with a huge amount
> >> of material being discussed. I've also met and discussed some of the
> >> issues with him personally. So I have much sympathy with what he says
> >> - although I tend to feel that steady state economy theorists give an
> >> impression that we have choices about managing a steady state economy
> >> when maybe we have already overshoot the earth's carrying capacity so
> >> that the task first is to manage a rocky process of transformation
> >> which will, at first, include at least some economic contraction, at
> >> least in the so called "developed economies".
> >>
> >> For all that his description of an engine of growth partly based on
> >> the production of novel consumer goods, that we do not really need, to
> >> impress people that we do not really care about and who don't really
> >> care about us...is well made.
> >>
> >> Some of us have recently had a discussion about "immaterial abundance"
> >> - but the problem is that when what impresses people is what we have
> >> (rather than what we are and what we do) then it is necessary that
> >> people can see our flashy motor car, our fashionable clothes, our big
> >> house, our jewellry - it is neccessary to social psychological reward
> >> structures that goods take a material form and the symbolic value
> >> (look at me, look at me...the narcissism observable in the "How to
> >> Spend it" supplements  of the Financial Times) have to be embedded in
> >> products that involve a throughput of energy and materials.
> >>
> >> It is in that context that I'm very uneasy about a narrative that
> >> appears to promise abundance - rather than a narrative based on a
> >> better balance - eg based on downshifting with less money income and
> >> material goods but more time spent on satisfying activities with
> >> others, more time with and for otherrs, and simply more time to unwind
> >> from the stress of an otherwise unabalanced lifestyle....and at the
> >> same time giving the planet a break by calling on it less for needs
> >> which are really about showing off....
> >>
> >> Finally, to return to the conference for which this video of Tim
> >> Jackson was made, and at which it was shown...during the last few
> >> months the organisers of the conference have been working very hard to
> >> produce a comprehensive conference report of very many threads of
> >> thinking.
> >>
> >> It can be downloaded here
> >>
> >> http://steadystate.org/enough-is-enough/
> >>
> >> As I attended this conference I recommend reading it and seeing if we
> >> can start to draw the narratives of the commons movement and those of
> >> p2p more into alignment or at least into a complementary form with
> >> these steady state ways of thinking so that we can work together to
> >> create the collective changes in ways of thinking that are currently
> >> so desperately needed.
> >>
> >> Brian Davey
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Michel Bauwens
> >> <michelsub2004 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > Dear Paul and friends,
> >> >
> >> > see http://vimeo.com/15970791
> >> >
> >> > I wonder if you could have a look at this video, pen some comments,
> and
> >> > post
> >> > it to our blog?
> >> >
> >> > the context is a steady state economics conference and the speaker
> talks
> >> > about the system dynamics of the growth economy,
> >> >
> >> > Michel
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  -
> >> > http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
> >> >
> >> > Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
> >> > http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
> >> >
> >> > Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
> >> > http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
> >> >
> >> > Think tank:
> http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  -
> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
> >
> > Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
> > http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
> >
> > Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
> > http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
> >
> > Think tank: http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

-- 
P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net

Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org

Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens

Think tank: http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
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