[p2p-research] Job Losses and Productivity

Wed May 19 19:05:49 CEST 2010

I agree, we can have very different models than the industrial holdout ...

On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 12:04 AM, Ryan Lanham <rlanham1963 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Education as you mean it is a luxury that we should cherish.  It is not
> something that is a matter of course.  People must want music and poetry.
> They must dream of it.  Those dreams do not come from walking to a room when
> a bell rings.  Wikipedia feeds millions of minds every day.  The purpose of
> schools is to rank order children so they can be processed for social
> status.  That is the reality.  The sooner we are rid of it, the sooner we
> will have more creativity, more productivity, and more dreams.  MHO.
>
>   On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 11:45 AM, Michel Bauwens <
> michelsub2004 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The educational system is certainly in crisis for a number of reasons, but
>> as to its full disappearance, let's see what happens ... I don't know of any
>> past civilisation which didn't have it and didn't believe that human
>> relationality was part of it, and I don't think individual technological
>> learning of skills is a sufficient alternative. Your statement seems to wipe
>> out any life of culture and thought that isn't instrumental and that my
>> friend, is indeed neoliberalism. So I say, read Make magazine And learn
>> philosophy and poetry and music, refined thinking and creation, etc... We
>> certainly lost the balance towards the latter, and now that neoliberal
>> education is pretty successfull in destroying any remaining sense of culture
>> and history, it seems you will get your way ...
>>
>> of course I agree with your last sentence (mostly), but I don't see how
>> you can get there with a totally uneducated citizenry, no matter how many
>> skills they have ..
>>
>>   On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 11:35 PM, Ryan Lanham <rlanham1963 at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>>   Hi Michel:
>>> I'm not sure what "education" is.  I doubt it leads to happiness.  I
>>> doubt it leads to wealth.  I doubt it leads to good citizens.  It correlates
>>> best with wealth.  But most of it is wasted and silly.  The entire
>>> university system of the West is now more wasteful in my view than it is
>>> productive.  It is more broken than the states that support it.
>>>
>>> Regardless, it is rapidly becoming software.  There is simply no arguing
>>> that Rosetta Stone teaches students languages better than classes.  If that
>>> is true, how long is it before we have Rosetta Algebra, etc.  And at that
>>> point, what do we need with the little red brick buildings and the pleasant
>>> 27 year old young ladies who hold hands and wipe noses?  Morever, what do we
>>> need with the professors whose "research" helps no one live longer, better
>>> or wiser?  People who believe they are owed the right to think what they
>>> want and write what they want on the public's dime.  Why?  For whom?  It has
>>> become silly.  It is a matter of time, whether you or I like it or not.  It
>>> is dying and will die in the next 30-50 years totally.  I have talked with
>>> enough leaders from the field to know this is true.  They know it.  Now we
>>> must prepare for it.  For profit universities in the US are crushing the
>>> state schools in terms of enrollment and use of technology.  Soon it will
>>> reach a tipping point.  Europe will follow.  Contemplating the Frankfurt
>>> School is a luxury for the rich...not a national necessity.  What nations
>>> like India and China need is people who read Make Magazine and who build low
>>> cost or free software and bicycles from open source machines.  You don't get
>>> that by training philosophers and poets.
>>>
>>> As to debt, inflation doesn't restart the clock.  It destroys the clock.
>>> Once it is destroyed, there will be poverty and misery (for the poor) unlike
>>> anything yet known.  It is very likely the poor will simply be slaughtered.
>>> They cannot defend themselves (we will sadly soon see this in Thailand) and
>>> they cannot appeal to world outrage (there isn't any.)   Whatever
>>> neo-liberalism is, I hope it is orderly financial markets, jobs, and free
>>> trade of innovative goods and services.  That is what we need.  The old left
>>> is dead.  Long live the new left...libertarian, anti-state, co-op intensive,
>>> civil society supporting, and willing to earn and trade with a moral sense.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 11:10 AM, Michel Bauwens <
>>> michelsub2004 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> ryan, education is emphatically Not a product meant for the markets to
>>>> consume, it is a education for citizenship and human happiness, that as a
>>>> sideproduct, should create people who can contribute to the wellbeing of
>>>> society through their work and activities ... and for this of course, they
>>>> need skills as well as education ..
>>>>
>>>> here is an article I hope you will read, on sovereign credit, and why,
>>>> it is not over, and why the people of Europe and elsewhere should not
>>>> acquiesce in the neoliberal holdup and destruction of social structures of
>>>> support and solidarity,
>>>>
>>>> Michel
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> via http://www.webofdebt.com/articles/hyperinflation.php
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
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>
>
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