[p2p-research] [Commoning] new post

[John Haltiwanger]

I am instantly reminded of participatory economics, a la Robin Hahnel (
http://www.amazon.com/Economic-Justice-Democracy-Competition-Twenty-First/dp/0415933455)
and Z Communications (
http://www.zcommunications.org/ ). I've always wanted to see this idea gain
more verbal traction---as of now it is rarely mentioned, if ever. It is a
sound model, developed by economists to have built in checks against common
problems in capitalist and centralized economies.

On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 9:16 AM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>wrote:

> Dear Andreas,
>
> yes, this is a very important and difficult topic, because, though markets
> have preceded capitalism for a few thousand years, breaking the link would
> now be much more difficult.
>
> I would add to your more classic analysis, and do feel free to send some
> english links on that german economist, that there is now an important
> discovery about the design of money itself, that leads to accumulation even
> without capitalism. This would mean that building alternative structures,
> based on open design communities and distributed manufacturing, who could
> operate a lot of their activities through mutual coordination instead of
> market signals, could also buy and sell rival goods without any necessity
> for accumulation, if they would use differently designed money.
>
> The latter priority is part and parcel of the p2p approach, in fact a
> central plank,
>
> Michel
>
> On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 4:15 AM, Andreas Exner <andreas.exner at chello.at>wrote:
>
>> hi all, espacially michel,
>>
>> what we did not really discuss in crottorf, though i think it to
>> be of great importance, is the thesis, that market logics could
>> be decoupled from capitalism.
>>
>> i wish that to be discussed some day in a more profound
>> way. actually we recently submitted a research project where
>> this question (inter alia) will be tackled.
>>
>> actually, i would argue that the growth imperative is founded
>> on one central structural feature of a money economy, i.e. one reigned
>> by markets (of labor, first of all): the abstract character of
>> (economic) value.
>>
>> this leads to
>>
>> (1) an urge to grow, since more money is better than less money,
>> and agents in a market economy have (per definition) no other
>> means to measure economic success than to compare expenditures
>> (in money terms) and income (in money terms)
>>
>> (2) a compulsion to grow, since markets imply competition for abstract
>> value.
>>
>> this essentially is the position of Marx, but can be found also in
>> the interesting works of the "bourgeois" economist hans christoph
>> binswanger.
>>
>> best wishes, andreas
>>
>>
>> >
>> > great reportage Massimo ... this is pretty much what I envision the
>> > transition situation to be, when commoning becomes more central within
>> > capitalism, but with great potential for a phase transition away from
>> > it,   as you indicate, it has problems, but it is at the same time
>> > vastly superior of the existing corporate alternatives in so many
>> > ways,   the question then becomes how to extend the commons aspects on
>> > a local and global scale, and how to divorce market logics from
>> > capitalism as an infinite growth system centered on endless
>> > accumulation,   Michel
>> >
>> > On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 11:24 PM, Massimo De Angelis
>> > <commoning at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >     Hello everybody
>> >     here is the latest reflection on a strange place we found high up
>> >     on the Ecuadorian Andes. It is quite amazing that in a desolate
>> >     and far away area  like this, you could find so much
>> >     "entrepreneurship" . . .but what makes this Salinas experience
>> >     truly interesting and intriguing is the mixture of commonism and
>> >     capitalism we have found . . .
>> >
>> > Read
>> > Branding + Mingas + Coops = Salinas
>> > at http://www.commoner.org.uk/blog/?p=239
>> >
>> > Saludos
>> > Massimo
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Commoning mailing list
>> > Commoning at lists.wissensallmende.de
>> > http://lists.wissensallmende.de/mailman/listinfo/commoning
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Work: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University - Think
>> > thank: http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>> >
>> > P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  -
>> > http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>> >
>> > Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
>> > http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
>> >
>> > Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
>> > http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Work: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University - Think
> thank: http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>
> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>
> Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
> http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
>
> Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
> http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> p2presearch mailing list
> p2presearch at listcultures.org
> http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listcultures.org/pipermail/p2presearch_listcultures.org/attachments/20100329/455e8f66/attachment.html>