[p2p-research] faroo p2p search + facebook quitters

[Michel Bauwens]

I agree with your perspective Sepp,

Facebook has become a daily fixture for me now (2 x 20 minutes), to see what
my friends are doing, give som extra weight to certain of our discoveries et
c...

I can't measure or prove whether link distribution works there or not, but
is a good dashboard,

twitter is for me useless as an info tool, but wonderful as a distribution
tool, we are reaching nearly 7,000 retweets ...

Michel

On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 8:03 PM, Sepp Hasslberger <sepp at lastrega.com> wrote:

> Thank you Michel,
>
> for FAROO, I did a little post by way of introducing it and scheduled that
> tentatively for 3 July on the p2p foundation blog.
>
> As for the article on facebook quitters, I enjoyed Ryan and Sam's comments.
> My view on facebook (I'm using it fairly actively for the time being) is
> that it's useful because
>
> - threshold for participating is low
>
> - number of participants makes fb an obvious choice (who wants to be where
> your friends aren't?)
>
> - they are opening a new field and letting us experiment with a tool that
> facilitates conversation among many parties.
>
> I will use facebook as long as it's useful but the moment I see a p2p
> alternative that makes sense, I'll be thinking hard about changing over.
>
> Of course such an alternative has to eliminate the mistakes facebook is
> making, especially on privacy. Other formidable obstacles to overcome are to
> find the right mix of services to catch the imagination of a majority of
> users, and the fact that it will have to grow from essentially nothing to
> having a useful number of participants. Not easy.
>
> Sepp
>
>
>
>  On 13/giu/10, at 10:03, Michel Bauwens wrote:
>
>  Hi sepp, I wonder if you could look into this:
>
> (I would also appreciate your comments on danah boyd's critique of facebook
> quitters ... see
> http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2010/05/23/quitting-facebook-is-pointless-challenging-them-to-do-better-is-not.html)
>
> Michel
>
>
>  Bernard Lunn <http://bernardlunn.wordpress.com/about/>
> May 27th, 2010 at 9:18 am
> <http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2010/05/23/quitting-facebook-is-pointless-challenging-them-to-do-better-is-not.html/comment-page-2#comment-81451>
>
> Disclosure: I represent FAROO and we are using p2p to solve both privacy &
> search scalability
>
> This is the big conflict: we need community powered personalization to
> filter information but we also need privacy. It is possible that p2p, where
> no data is stored/controlled centrally and is encrypted on the wire, is the
> only way to do this.
>
> FAROO has been working on this for many years and have now proved that it
> is possible: our p2p search network has 1.7 million peers with search
> latency below 1 second.
>
> You mentioned two questions around p2p. These are things we have been
> thinking about for a long time.
>
> “I am all in favor of people building what they believe to be alternatives
> to Facebook. I even invested in Diaspora because I’m curious what will come
> of that system. But I don’t believe that Diaspora is a Facebook killer. I do
> believe that there is a potential for Diaspora to do something interesting
> that will play a different role in the ecosystem and I look forward to
> seeing what they develop. I’m also curious about the future of peer-to-peer
> systems in light of the move towards the cloud, but I’m not convinced that
> decentralization is a panacea to all of our contemporary woes.
> Realistically, I don’t think that most users around the globe will find a
> peer-to-peer solution worth the hassle. The cost/benefit analysis isn’t in
> their favor. ”
>
> The download hurdle is a common reservation. It has not proved a hurdle
> when the payoff is big enough – think Skype and Spotify. And more recently
> the iPhone and Android app stores have totally changed the mindset around
> downloading software. The key issue I think is what you mention – “hassle”.
> It is a hassle free experience on iPhone but people have found the
> experience less than hassle-free on the PC. That is why Diaspora may find
> the technical challenges harder than they think. Making p2p totally
> scalable, reliable and hassle free is not simple.
>
> “I’m also patently afraid that a system like Diaspora will be quickly
> leveraged for child pornography and other more problematic uses that tend to
> emerge when there isn’t a centralized control system.”
>
> In Diaspora each user places their profile on their own server, so they
> will held responsible anyway. If people would like to store illegal things
> on a server they can do it all the time, they don’t need Diaspora for this.
> FAROO only indexes information that is already publicly available. If
> something is bad, you can remove the original page, than it will disappear
> from the p2p system, automatically.
>
> Recently Google offered https encrypted search for more privacy:
>
>
> http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2010/05/search-more-securely-with-encrypted.html
>
> While Google’s https search eliminates wiretapping by intermediate parties,
> but they still collect log files.
>
> HTTPS does not protect against a leak of those log files by technical
> problems, human error, later changes of terms of services, criminal data
> theft, legal challenges, or silent cooperation with interested authorities.
>
> Google still collects personal data, but offers privacy by policy (which
> can be changed or challenged). The same is true of Facebook clearly!
>
> FAROO in turn does not collect personal data at all, and offers privacy by
> architectural design (attention data for ranking are anonymized /search
> queries stay encrypted all the time, because the index is encrypted itself /
> there is no central data repository which could be wiretapped).
>
>  Bernard Lunn <http://bernardlunn.wordpress.com/about/>
> May 27th, 2010 at 9:18 am
> <http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2010/05/23/quitting-facebook-is-pointless-challenging-them-to-do-better-is-not.html/comment-page-2#comment-81451>
>
> Disclosure: I represent FAROO and we are using p2p to solve both privacy &
> search scalability
>
> This is the big conflict: we need community powered personalization to
> filter information but we also need privacy. It is possible that p2p, where
> no data is stored/controlled centrally and is encrypted on the wire, is the
> only way to do this.
>
> FAROO has been working on this for many years and have now proved that it
> is possible: our p2p search network has 1.7 million peers with search
> latency below 1 second.
>
> You mentioned two questions around p2p. These are things we have been
> thinking about for a long time.
>
> “I am all in favor of people building what they believe to be alternatives
> to Facebook. I even invested in Diaspora because I’m curious what will come
> of that system. But I don’t believe that Diaspora is a Facebook killer. I do
> believe that there is a potential for Diaspora to do something interesting
> that will play a different role in the ecosystem and I look forward to
> seeing what they develop. I’m also curious about the future of peer-to-peer
> systems in light of the move towards the cloud, but I’m not convinced that
> decentralization is a panacea to all of our contemporary woes.
> Realistically, I don’t think that most users around the globe will find a
> peer-to-peer solution worth the hassle. The cost/benefit analysis isn’t in
> their favor. ”
>
> The download hurdle is a common reservation. It has not proved a hurdle
> when the payoff is big enough – think Skype and Spotify. And more recently
> the iPhone and Android app stores have totally changed the mindset around
> downloading software. The key issue I think is what you mention – “hassle”.
> It is a hassle free experience on iPhone but people have found the
> experience less than hassle-free on the PC. That is why Diaspora may find
> the technical challenges harder than they think. Making p2p totally
> scalable, reliable and hassle free is not simple.
>
> “I’m also patently afraid that a system like Diaspora will be quickly
> leveraged for child pornography and other more problematic uses that tend to
> emerge when there isn’t a centralized control system.”
>
> In Diaspora each user places their profile on their own server, so they
> will held responsible anyway. If people would like to store illegal things
> on a server they can do it all the time, they don’t need Diaspora for this.
> FAROO only indexes information that is already publicly available. If
> something is bad, you can remove the original page, than it will disappear
> from the p2p system, automatically.
>
> Recently Google offered https encrypted search for more privacy:
>
>
> http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2010/05/search-more-securely-with-encrypted.html
>
> While Google’s https search eliminates wiretapping by intermediate parties,
> but they still collect log files.
>
> HTTPS does not protect against a leak of those log files by technical
> problems, human error, later changes of terms of services, criminal data
> theft, legal challenges, or silent cooperation with interested authorities.
>
> Google still collects personal data, but offers privacy by policy (which
> can be changed or challenged). The same is true of Facebook clearly!
>
> FAROO in turn does not collect personal data at all, and offers privacy by
> architectural design (attention data for ranking are anonymized /search
> queries stay encrypted all the time, because the index is encrypted itself /
> there is no central data repository which could be wiretapped).
>
>
> --
> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>
> Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
> http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
>
> Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
> http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>
> Think tank: http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>
>
>
>
>
>


-- 
P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net

Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org

Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens

Think tank: http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listcultures.org/pipermail/p2presearch_listcultures.org/attachments/20100630/0c079511/attachment.html>