[p2p-research] cutting cultural budgets

Sat Jun 26 17:32:34 CEST 2010

I am always glad for Europe and its views.  It has been a good a fair
partner in the modern world.  I am sad they're left collapses at some speed
similar to our right...both groups becoming hollow specters of their former
selves--caricatures really.   The enlightened right of John Kennedy and
Scoop Jackson is as dead as that of Harold Macmillan.  Their successors
(Reagan and Thatcher) bankrupt both countries because they were impatient as
much as ignorant...a bankruptcy that has now finally seen its last transfer
of private and corporate debt to the public sector.  In short, as we have
said here left and right, capitalism is screwed...but for reasons far
different than anything the left ever envisioned...not that it matters.

The welfare state (which is far more American than European as a structural
state project designed for the People--but that's a nit) is dying fast and
will die completely soon.  It is now being dismantled in England and will be
soon in Spain and Germany--a process that will take more than a decade.
Medicaid is under extreme pressure in the US and will soon fail as a
state-based program...as it must.  Thus, the US nation will pick up another
crippling debt which is well beyond the last straw.   Norway will be last
because of their oil wealth.  But they are paying the price with an extreme
slide of their currency which is even greater than that of the Euro.

Europe's left will spend 30 years discussing the injustice done them, just
as the American right will spend 30 years discussing enemies long buried.
It doesn't much matter.  Now is a time for survival.  Those who will survive
will define economic relevance for themselves without silly moral
peccadilloes and hope for state allies.  The most inspirational model by far
I've seen on these pages is the little project you highlighted in the
Andies.  It gives me hope that the poor are not left as defenseless as they
seem.  I still see microfinance as a way, but the defaults and failures in
that industry have left it crippled in most of the world.  In short, credit
problems are the root of nearly all of modern capitalism's ills...something
the left simply doesn't understand nor will they.  It was automation and
information speed that killed credit...and that is the story of the modern
world in a nutshell.  The answer is cooperation...in a new and economically
sound ways...not as lazy socialism but as productive P2P.

Some days I see the prospect of success.  Most I see hopelessness.  I admire
all of you who keep trying.

On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 3:38 AM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>wrote:

> of course the formal/dominant european left has always been nationalistic
> and elitist, but always less so than the American right ...
>
> and as for your stress on defeat, that is all relative, the european
> welfare state will stand as a major achievement of civilisation, and on most
> quality of life indicators, most european countries have always been ahead
> of the U.S.; indeed, despite the assaults of reaganism/thatcherism, now
> intensified under extreme neoliberalism, it has always defended these
> achievements quite more successfully than its american counterparts .. I
> lived in the U.S. and Europe alike, and unless you have a lot of money, I
> would say that generally living in the latter  (or in Canada) is a guarantee
> of a more pleasant life ... You would like us for Europeans to uses the same
> militaristic focus as the U.S. Been there, done that, and it was disastrous
> ... so, indeed, we will not follow that advice and waste countless billions,
> thank you very much ... unless you have imperial ambitions like the U.S. and
> want to live off the rent of the rest of the world, it is not a good
> investment, and not realistic ..
>
> so while your critique is true, the same critique would apply much more to
> the U.S. ..
>
> I'm pretty confident that in the end, european working people will  not let
> the merkel/sarkozy's get away with their assaults on living standards ...
> the future will tell ..
>
> the days of American empire are numbered, this does of course not
> necessarily mean that any new empire, would be any better, and in any case,
> imperial dislocation has historically been quite disastrous for everybody
> ... until a new configuration takes hold ..
>
> or let's dream, a new more progressive civilisation, centered around p2p
> infrastructures, may be in the realm of these new possibilities .. but it
> will get worse before it gets better ...
>
> Michel
>
> On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 11:27 PM, Ryan Lanham <rlanham1963 at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>>  On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 11:02 PM, Samuel Rose <samuel.rose at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Mike, I think it is likely not accurate that many US-based readers of
>>> this thread with respond with pro-US viewpoints. At least for those of
>>> us in the US who are regular readers and respondents to p2presearch
>>> listl anyway.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Clearly few people on this list hold "pro-US" viewpoints.  That is part
>> caused, I think, by the European left which has always been nationalistic
>> and elitist (while singing the Internationale!), and part identification of
>> the US with corporate agendas...which is historically absurd.  Indeed Niall
>> Ferguson--probably the best known European historian of the day, regularly
>> chides the US for not being more corporatist.  But such is politics.  And
>> such is the historical left which can always find a way to seize defeat from
>> the jaws of victory.  P2P is happening and happening very fast.  Sadly, a
>> lot of old scores are being lumped with it that will ultimately threaten its
>> success--mostly a sadly naive internationalist/socialist agenda.  The moral
>> relativism of Europe is always quick to see an evil US and an evil Israel,
>> and ever slow to see a gross environment disaster in the Gulf or in Nigeria
>> largely of their own making.  It's an old and a sad story of lack of
>> responsibility and lack of commitment to moral good that takes real
>> commitment.  Usually it leads to large numbers of US graves in some distant
>> land formerly carved and made "civilized" by enlightened Europeans who have
>> a clear vision of how the world SHOULD be.
>>
>> I am grateful that the governments of Europe...especially the
>> conservatives in the UK, Sarkozy in France, and Merkel in Germany realize
>> the absurdity of these historical left positions and work to undermine them
>> gently.  P2P will be the better for it.  Anarchism and general decline of
>> civilization, on the other hand, will have to wait a day or two.  Chances
>> are good those will come soon enough.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> p2presearch mailing list
>> p2presearch at listcultures.org
>> http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>
> Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
> http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
>
> Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
> http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>
> Think tank: http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> p2presearch mailing list
> p2presearch at listcultures.org
> http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
>
>

-- 
Ryan Lanham
rlanham1963 at gmail.com
Facebook: Ryan_Lanham
P.O. Box 633
Grand Cayman, KY1-1303
Cayman Islands
(345) 916-1712
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listcultures.org/pipermail/p2presearch_listcultures.org/attachments/20100626/67ecb963/attachment-0001.html>