[p2p-research] cutting cultural budgets

[Michel Bauwens]

of course the formal/dominant european left has always been nationalistic
and elitist, but always less so than the American right ...

and as for your stress on defeat, that is all relative, the european welfare
state will stand as a major achievement of civilisation, and on most quality
of life indicators, most european countries have always been ahead of the
U.S.; indeed, despite the assaults of reaganism/thatcherism, now intensified
under extreme neoliberalism, it has always defended these achievements quite
more successfully than its american counterparts .. I lived in the U.S. and
Europe alike, and unless you have a lot of money, I would say that generally
living in the latter  (or in Canada) is a guarantee of a more pleasant life
... You would like us for Europeans to uses the same militaristic focus as
the U.S. Been there, done that, and it was disastrous ... so, indeed, we
will not follow that advice and waste countless billions, thank you very
much ... unless you have imperial ambitions like the U.S. and want to live
off the rent of the rest of the world, it is not a good investment, and not
realistic ..

so while your critique is true, the same critique would apply much more to
the U.S. ..

I'm pretty confident that in the end, european working people will  not let
the merkel/sarkozy's get away with their assaults on living standards ...
the future will tell ..

the days of American empire are numbered, this does of course not
necessarily mean that any new empire, would be any better, and in any case,
imperial dislocation has historically been quite disastrous for everybody
... until a new configuration takes hold ..

or let's dream, a new more progressive civilisation, centered around p2p
infrastructures, may be in the realm of these new possibilities .. but it
will get worse before it gets better ...

Michel

On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 11:27 PM, Ryan Lanham <rlanham1963 at gmail.com> wrote:

>  On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 11:02 PM, Samuel Rose <samuel.rose at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Mike, I think it is likely not accurate that many US-based readers of
>> this thread with respond with pro-US viewpoints. At least for those of
>> us in the US who are regular readers and respondents to p2presearch
>> listl anyway.
>>
>>
>
> Clearly few people on this list hold "pro-US" viewpoints.  That is part
> caused, I think, by the European left which has always been nationalistic
> and elitist (while singing the Internationale!), and part identification of
> the US with corporate agendas...which is historically absurd.  Indeed Niall
> Ferguson--probably the best known European historian of the day, regularly
> chides the US for not being more corporatist.  But such is politics.  And
> such is the historical left which can always find a way to seize defeat from
> the jaws of victory.  P2P is happening and happening very fast.  Sadly, a
> lot of old scores are being lumped with it that will ultimately threaten its
> success--mostly a sadly naive internationalist/socialist agenda.  The moral
> relativism of Europe is always quick to see an evil US and an evil Israel,
> and ever slow to see a gross environment disaster in the Gulf or in Nigeria
> largely of their own making.  It's an old and a sad story of lack of
> responsibility and lack of commitment to moral good that takes real
> commitment.  Usually it leads to large numbers of US graves in some distant
> land formerly carved and made "civilized" by enlightened Europeans who have
> a clear vision of how the world SHOULD be.
>
> I am grateful that the governments of Europe...especially the conservatives
> in the UK, Sarkozy in France, and Merkel in Germany realize the absurdity of
> these historical left positions and work to undermine them gently.  P2P will
> be the better for it.  Anarchism and general decline of civilization, on the
> other hand, will have to wait a day or two.  Chances are good those will
> come soon enough.
>
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>
>


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