[p2p-research] multiple gods and fluid identities

Michel Bauwens michelsub2004 at gmail.com
Thu Jun 17 11:13:06 CEST 2010 

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 4:07 AM
Subject: republishing your multiple gods piece
To: Remi Sussan <remi.sussan at gmail.com>



Recently I have been reading an extremely interesting study from Benjamin
Sommer, "bodies of gods". His main thesis is that the gods of the "fertile
crescent" (Phoenician, Babylonian, Canaanites) had the particularity to have

several bodies, and even several "personalities" or "souls". The basic
fluidity of these gods may manifest in two forms: fragmentation and overlap.

Because of fragmentation a god appear to be in different locations, and even

have different selves or personalities.

The author shows as an example of this the following invocation by
Assubanipal of the two Ihstar of Niniveh and Arbela:

Exalt and glorify the Lady of Nineveh,

magnify and praise the Lady of Arbela,

who have no equal among the great gods!

Their names are most precious among the goddesses!

Their cult centres have no equal among all the shrines!

A word from their lips is blazing fire!

Their utterances are valid for ever!

I am Assurbanipal, their favorite . . .

I grew up in the lap of my goddesses . . . …

Showing distinctly the existence of two goddesses of the same name. Benjamin

Sommer insists to say that the plural is indeed used, and that the syntax
shows that they cannot be seen as two different attributes of the same
goddess.

With Overlap, gods merge in each other, some are seen as aspects of some
others:

"Your head is Adad, who [makes] heaven and earth [resound] like a smithy,

Your brow is Shala, beloved [sp]ouse who contents [Adad’s heart],

Your neck is Marduk, judge of heaven [and netherworld . . .

Your throat is Sarpanitum, creat[ress of peo]ple . ."

According to Summer, the One god of early Judaism, as described in the old
testament, shared with other south Mediterranean gods the same capacity to
have several bodies. The God of the ancient testament wasn't at first a
bodiless pure spirit, but a kind of liquid entity able to appear under
several forms.

Sommer only briefly mentions Egypt, as it is not his field of study, but I
have simultaneously read Eric Hornung, "the one and the many", and it seems
that the Egyptian gods also exhibited this kind of liquid nature. For
instance, Hornung notices that the so-called Egyptian syncretism was not
simply the absorption of one god by an other; for instance, in Amon-Re , Re
is not abolished in Amon, or the reverse. Amon and Re both continue to have
their cults, etc. But Egyptians created a third god, a "compound entity"
from these two deities. Hornung explicitly compares this process to
chemistry, where various compounds are associated in order to create new
molecules.

I have also the strong impression that India shared the same paradigm. I
don't know for fragmentation, but I'm sure for overlap. Gods divide, and
transform easily in each other; look for instance at these extracts from the

Ganesha Upanishad:

"You are speech. You are consciousness. You are Bliss. You are Brahma. You
are Being-Consciousness-Bliss. You are the Non-Dual. You are plainly Brahma.

You are knowledge. You are Intelligence. "

"You are Brahma, You are Vishnu, You are Rudra, You are Agni, You are Vayu,
You are the Sun, You are the Moon, You are Brahma, Bhur-Bhuvah-Svar. "

So according to Sommer, one may classify religions not with a unique axis
(monotheism/polytheism) but at least two, including the duality
fluidity/fixity. Greek mythology is an example of a polytheism where gods
and goddesses have just one self, one personality, and early judaism would
be an example of a monotheism where a unique divinity may have several
bodies and selves.

What should we deduce of that? First an interesting epistemology and
ontology. One of the main features of myths and religious though is that
frequently they express in a narrative, intuitive embodied way some very
abstract notions lying at the core of our way of knowledge. For instance,
it's now quite well known that the Christian vision of history culminating
in an "Apocalypse" paved the way to our common conception of linear time, a
concept shared today by even the most atheist of our thinkers, in opposition

to the older vision of cyclical time, shared by many traditional societies.
Gregory Bateson mentions an other interesting example , showing how myths
may express different versions of the notion of order and disorder.

"Among the Iatmul of New Guinea, the central origin myth, like the Genesis
story, deals with the question of how dry land was separated from water.
They say that in the beginning the crocodile Kavwokmali paddled with his
front legs and with his hind legs; and his paddling kept the mud suspended
in the water. The great culture hero, Kevembuangga, came with his spear and
killed Kavwokmali. After that the mud settled and dry land was formed.
Kevembuangga then stamped with his foot on the dry land, i.e., he proudly
demonstrated “that it was good. (…) the Iatmul have arrived at a theory of
order which is almost a precise converse of that of the book of Genesis. In
Iatmul thought, sorting will occur if randomization is prevented. In
Genesis, an agent is invoked to do the sorting and dividing. "

What a future religion may gain from this concept of "fluid gods"? By making

the multiplicity the hallmark of perfection, such an ontology may provide
narrative for a future psychology where the frontiers of the "body" and the
self are increasingly blurred. This include of course, the idea of future
uploaded superintelligences able to copy themselves in different supports
etc.. But it may help people today to understand their current situations,
their own existence as a network of online persona, avatars, agents, what
Anders Sandberg calls the "exoself". It may give us a new vision of our
mind, as a population of various personalities and entities. I don't speak
here exactly about Minsky's society of mind, because, as I understand it,
agents in a society of mind are not conscious: I speak more here about
multiplication of conscious selves, a kind of "multiple personality
disorder" but seen positively. Chaos magicians frequently point at this
idea, and it is also used in some sci-fi novels such as Walter Jon Williams'

Aristoi. But chaos magicians are frequently original in their ideas but
superficial in their approach, and it may be interesting to build seriously
some ontology and mythical narratives about this notion of fluidity.


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: <turingchurch+noreply at googlegroups.com<turingchurch%2Bnoreply at googlegroups.com>
>
Date: Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 8:34 PM
Subject: Abridged summary of turingchurch at googlegroups.com - 3 Messages in 1
Topic
To: Abridged Recipients
<turingchurch+digest at googlegroups.com<turingchurch%2Bdigest at googlegroups.com>
>


  Today's Topic Summary

Group: http://groups.google.com/group/turingchurch/topics

   - the return of phoenician gods
?<https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&view=js&name=js&ver=FTZabJ_H178.en.&am=!W6Hss3DXXsGRZb6MUfUyehccON9VaYSKSJB-BU4_O1DIOauX&fri#129129e981ee8597_group_thread_0>[3
Updates]

 Topic: the return of phoenician gods
?<http://groups.google.com/group/turingchurch/t/54cc969e2335c8ec>

   Remi Sussan <remi.sussan at gmail.com> Jun 06 05:40PM +0200
^<https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&view=js&name=js&ver=FTZabJ_H178.en.&am=!W6Hss3DXXsGRZb6MUfUyehccON9VaYSKSJB-BU4_O1DIOauX&fri#129129e981ee8597_digest_top>

   (As I intend to do a future version for my blog, or incorporate it in a
   larger text, please tell me when you see English mistakes, or weird
   sentences! An English prof also once said to me that my
more...<http://groups.google.com/group/turingchurch/msg/3b1e174c1a9c2b1c>


   Lincoln Cannon <lincoln at metacannon.net> Jun 06 05:36PM -0600
^<https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&view=js&name=js&ver=FTZabJ_H178.en.&am=!W6Hss3DXXsGRZb6MUfUyehccON9VaYSKSJB-BU4_O1DIOauX&fri#129129e981ee8597_digest_top>

   Some conceptions of the Christian trinity fit in such a paradigm.

   more...<http://groups.google.com/group/turingchurch/msg/f32ff06963f3e0d7>


   Lincoln Cannon <lincoln at metacannon.net> Jun 06 05:37PM -0600
^<https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&view=js&name=js&ver=FTZabJ_H178.en.&am=!W6Hss3DXXsGRZb6MUfUyehccON9VaYSKSJB-BU4_O1DIOauX&fri#129129e981ee8597_digest_top>

   . . . and, yeah, the incarnations of the Hindu gods seems to fit the
   paradigm.

   more...<http://groups.google.com/group/turingchurch/msg/de382c4e9c8282f0>




-- 
P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net

Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org

Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens

Think tank: http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI







-- 
P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net

Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org

Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens

Think tank: http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listcultures.org/pipermail/p2presearch_listcultures.org/attachments/20100617/59f6c264/attachment-0001.html>

More information about the p2presearch mailing list