[p2p-research] Fwd: The transition to a cooperative humanity

Sat Jul 24 15:17:44 CEST 2010

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: David Bollier <david at bollier.org>
Date: Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 7:54 PM
Subject: Re: The transition
To: Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>
The essay that I co-authored with John Clippinger is available here:
www.bollier.org/pdf/renaissanceofcommonsessay.pdf

Clippinger is quite knowledgeableable about evolutionary sciences and how
recent findings are supportive of a  vision of humanity as cooperative,
especially as a matter of group selection (vs. individual selection).

David

Michel Bauwens wrote:

Hi Richard,

I have not really written anything on the subject ... but I think richard
clippinger and david bollier have written a summary somewhere of the last 30
years of social studies, which have completely destroyed the neoliberal
presumption of a monological human subject who is only a rational actor with
self interest ... that myth has been destroyed many many times over with
precise scientific research ...

so the best view is to see us as possessing several contradictory and
paradoxical traits, and how social structures can stimulate the better
selves rather than the worst ones,

I have no date on changing of human natures, but a tag
http://del.icio.us/mbauwens/P2P-Intersubjectivity and
http://del.icio.us/mbauwens/P2P-Cooperation which follows such things, my
material on the relational (r)evolution is at
http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:Relational

I know that the Edelman reports have shown that since 2007, most people now
'trust their peers instead of institutions', and that most business
decisions are already done in the same way (stats from tara hunt). I have no
figures on the rapidity of such a shift, though the Edelman reports showed
that this particular shift took less than 4 years, and includes China, so
it's not a western phenomenom

now all this doesn't mean that human nature is shifting rapidly of course,
it's just one particular attitude. I myself do have the presumption that
sharing practices online, do have a major impact on worldviews in general,
but I haven't seen any 'proofs' of this

also of interest are the social developmental statistics gathered by susan
cook-greuter and the world value comparison studies of ronald inglehart ...

in any case, at the rate of destruction we are at, expecting 50 generations
of infinite growth market domination is sheer lunacy,

you should treat correspondents for the extremist fools they are, they are
not cynics even, just misguided and handicapped human beings with
monological views ..

my point is, while human nature is not a given and evolves, p2p does not
require a wholesale and rapid change of human nature, since it can draw on
pre-existing trait, and it builds infrastructures and social practices that
draw on these traits that are presently underserved ..

nevertheless, changing infrastructures, change social practices, and change,
over time, what is considered to be human nature,

some historians studing the renaissance and reformation periods, said it
took four generations to overcome the medieval worldview ... unfortunately,
we do not have that time now,

Michel

On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 1:37 AM, Richard Poynder <
richard.poynder at btinternet.com> wrote:

>  I have another question if I may: cynics who challenge any proposed
> alternative to neoliberalism argue that “human nature” is more or less
> static (or so slow in developing that it might just as well be static) and
> so market forces are the only way of regulating the world (at least in the
> next 50 generations or so!). I seem to recall that one of your responses to
> this is to say that human nature will change in a P2P environment (and
> presumably fairly rapidly). Have you posted anything on that recently? Can
> you give me a short explanation as to how and why human nature might change?
> (Or have I misunderstood something?).
>
>
>
> Thanks. Richard
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Michel Bauwens [mailto:michelsub2004 at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* 23 July 2010 04:35
>
> *To:* Richard Poynder
> *Subject:* Re: The transition
>
>
>
> yes, she's doing most of the ground work for berlin and it is a huge
> project ...
>
> On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 1:50 AM, Richard Poynder <
> richard.poynder at btinternet.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks Michel. I will hope to do that in the future. I am currently trying
> to organise an interview with Silke Helfrich, but she’s a very busy person!
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Michel Bauwens [mailto:michelsub2004 at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* 22 July 2010 17:52
> *To:* Richard Poynder
> *Subject:* Re: The transition
>
>
>
> by the way, if you ever want to do a more formal interview about this, I
> would love to do that,
>
>
>
> Michel
>
> On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 11:37 PM, Richard Poynder <
> richard.poynder at btinternet.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Michel,
>
>
>
> I wonder if you could clarify something for me. We had this brief
> discussion below by email in January 2008. Rereading it I am not sure
> whether you were saying that political change now has to take place
> completely outside the current structure (via autonomous development within
> civil society perhaps), or simply that we cannot hope to take money out of
> the system.
>
>
>
> I am conscious that in your foundation text you said this: "Current global
> governance institutions, as they are organised today (IMF, World Bank, WTO),
> often impede the finding of solutions because they are instruments of
> domination, rather than at the service of the world population. It is thus
> not just a matter of an alternative political program, but of alternative
> processes to arrive at the best solutions. I do not personally believe, that
> change can come from the autonomous processes of civil society, and that
> attention to the state form is important. Thus politically, peer to peer
> advocates are interested in the transformation of the nation-state, to new
> forms open to the processes of globality, to participatory processes, such
> as the ones practiced with P2P formats."
>
>
>
> I wonder if you could clarify your current thoughts on how we transition
> politically? And what role do you see for a) today’s political parties, b)
> political parties per se.
>
>
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> Richard
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> also, there are many tools for openness and transparency, which will slowly
> have effects ...
>
> Yea, I agree, but based on what we see today we should probably forget
> about openness in mainstream politics and political campaigning. (The only
> thing Trippi is interested in, by the way, is Open Source campaigning. When
> I asked him how you govern in an Open Source manner he was less opinionated,
> falling back on occasional online referenda in which presidents try to
> isolate special interests by going "direct to the people".
>
>
> Richard: I frankly think that the current system is  beyond reform, and
> that this is not what it is about, but rather about constructing a new way
> of doing politics, which we slowly emerge, and then come out in the open
> after a crisis of some sort .... like mass media reform, I think reforming
> money politics is just no longer an option ...
>
> Michel
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
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>
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>
> Think tank: http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>
>
>
>
>
> --
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>
> Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
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>
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>
> Think tank: http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>
>
>
>

-- 
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-- 

__________________
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511 Old Farm Road
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