[p2p-research] Defining Altruism ? Normative vs Autonomous ? Liberal Vs Conservative ?

[Dante-Gabryell Monson]

On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 8:59 PM, Ryan Lanham <rlanham1963 at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 3:48 AM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>>
>>
> Ahh, back to intellectual property is theft...again, nothing to say to that
> religious view.  It is nonsense to most of the world...always will be.
>

Most of which world ? Which world are you talking about ? The whole world ?
You mean, most of everyone ?  Are you talking on behalf of most of everyone
on this planet ?


>   But by all means, go on believing.  If a person couldn't resell
> intellectual property, the world would be like an African country in a
> matter of weeks.
>

In relation to what kind of context precisely ?

To a context of a globalized world , exploiting african countries for their
natural resources ?

A context of an economic system dependent on exponential growth of the
monetary mass, through a need to increase monetization of any kind of space,
resource, or potential for reification ? A context which may incentivize
monopoly or artificial scarcity through certain patents, as a precondition
to have access to / converge resources to enable collaborative initiatives ?

Perhaps it depends on the context one wants to choose.

Personally, I like to believe it is possible to create another context then
a capitalist context.

Or at least, to reduce dependency on a capitalist context.


>
>
>>
>> what this has to do with hating, I'm not sure I understand, I think most
>> of the people in the business community and the justice departments, did not
>> hate Bill Gates, they were either rivals at the short end of the stick, or
>> officials with concerns about competitivity etc... Microsoft itselt behaved
>> as ruthless attack dogs with competitors, which it destroyed without
>> compulsion, so where is the hate, and why is one kind of hate more justified
>> than the other,
>>
>>
>
> For me, in business, there is ethics and there is law.  MS might have
> stretched ethics once or twice and law once or twice.  Overall, it has
> spawned far more good than most institutions...millions have produced untold
> economic benefits because of their innovations, marketing, and consistency.
> To not celebrate such a great firm is very sad to me.  These are the sorts
> of positions that make the left so ridiculous and out of touch with
> reality.
>

Which reality ?
In which context ?
In a chosen context ?


>
>
>> why is a enclosing hate generating billions in rent, less reprehensible
>> than a passion for openness, which also generates billions, but spreads it
>> out more evenly ..
>>
>
> Passion for openness is fine.  Hating people for making a profit is...odd
> at least, insane at worst.
>

Personally, I am ok with you or other people wanting to choose a certain
game, even a capitalist game, as long as it does not prevent me and others
of their choice for another context, outside of yours, if they wish to.

The problem is that capitalism does not necessarily make it easy for others
to play another game as the one it imposes.

I am currently dependent on capitalism, because its monetary system
is controlling many of the interdependencies I need to have access to for
living.

But I aim at reducing such dependency on capitalism, reclaiming alternatives
for production, property, and interdependency mediums.

Most likely, from my current point of view, this may be reached through a
hybrid approach,
reducing dependency on any one type of system or relational dynamics,
but still have access to any one type of relational dynamics if and when one
choses to.



>
>
>>
>> the movement for openness indeed saw Microsoft as the prime enemy,  not
>> out of any kind of atavistic hate, but from experience with its practices...
>>
>
> Yes, perhaps, but they were making hay off of MS.  And MS furthered the
> discussion by playing the bad guy...Mozilla villainized them at every turn
> and built a huge community in part by making MS appear evil.  If MS is evil,
> there is blood on every firms hands.  I'm sure some believe that.  It is a
> sad world for such people.  I live in a world where firms make great stuff,
> trade it, people use it, and people make a living off of it.  Yes it isn't
> perfect.  Is it good?  Far better than anything else ever devised by a long
> shot.
>
>>
>> Lennon by the way, was most probably wrong, unfortunately, hate has worked
>> pretty well as a political force,
>>
>>
>
> Lennon was a lot more right than Lenin.  Imagine was genius.  You say you
> want a revolution probably saved more people from Cold War lunacy than
> anything else.  I'd say he was a great hero.  But in that sense I am a bit
> of (metaphysical) romantic.
>
>
>> Michel
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 2:28 PM, Ryan Lanham <rlanham1963 at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> To call Bill Gates a thief is to make a mockery of theft.  He has
>>> produced.  His production has built thousands of good lives, good houses,
>>> cars, college educations, etc.
>>>
>>> To paraphrase John Lennon...if you want support for people with minds
>>> that hate...all I can tell you brother is that you'll have to wait.
>>>
>>> R.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 11:52 PM, Kevin Carson <
>>> free.market.anticapitalist at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 7/20/10, Ryan Lanham <rlanham1963 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> > How would people explain the altruism of a Bill Gates, Warren Buffett,
>>>> etc.
>>>> > Guilt?
>>>> >
>>>> > Bill Gates has done far more for humanity than everyone on this list
>>>> > combined.  Yet, I suspect many here would hold him in contempt.
>>>>
>>>> My usual reaction to stories of plutocratic philanthropy is that,
>>>> instead of giving back part of what they extracted from society, they
>>>> just shouldn't steal in the first place.  I don't think it's possible
>>>> to become a billionaire by honest means, without some sort of rent
>>>> extraction with the help of the government.  Just about every penny of
>>>> Gates' fortune comes from the "intellectual property" rents he's
>>>> extracted with the help of the state.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Kevin Carson
>>>> Center for a Stateless Society http://c4ss.org
>>>> Mutualist Blog:  Free Market Anti-Capitalism
>>>> http://mutualist.blogspot.com
>>>> The Homebrew Industrial Revolution:  A Low-Overhead Manifesto
>>>> http://homebrewindustrialrevolution.wordpress.com
>>>> Organization Theory:  A Libertarian Perspective
>>>>
>>>> http://mutualist.blogspot.com/2005/12/studies-in-anarchist-theory-of.html
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ryan Lanham
>>> rlanham1963 at gmail.com
>>>  Facebook: Ryan_Lanham
>>> P.O. Box 633
>>> Grand Cayman, KY1-1303
>>> Cayman Islands
>>> (345) 916-1712
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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>>
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>
>
> --
> Ryan Lanham
> rlanham1963 at gmail.com
> Facebook: Ryan_Lanham
> P.O. Box 633
> Grand Cayman, KY1-1303
> Cayman Islands
> (345) 916-1712
>
>
>
>
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