[p2p-research] Defining Altruism ? Normative vs Autonomous ? Liberal Vs Conservative ?

Dante-Gabryell Monson dante.monson at gmail.com
Tue Jul 20 15:22:42 CEST 2010 

Hi Alex...
Interesting... enlightened self interest...

I am interested to understand how this plays in situations of "concurrency"
? ( such as access to limited resources )
Where do the priorities go ?
When is there "sacrifice" ? And according to which order of priorities ?

And in which type of relational model ( as for Fiske's relational models :
http://p2pfoundation.net/Relational_Model_Typology_-_Fiske ) ?

Can one imagine "agents" contributing till self sacrifice to p2p / "communal
shareholding" without benefiting themselves ( but potentially having some of
their loved ones benefiting ? Or humanity ? ). In such case, is their own
benefit that of personal satisfaction and sense of meaning ?

When googling "altruistic games", I also read mention to "indirect
reciprocity", which also may relate to "reputation"
( such as this article - mentioning a relation with development of morality
: http://www.springerlink.com/content/d77n346pk48u54w4/ )


----------------

I was asking such kind of questions in this thread

*"Collaborative Individualists" Vs "Autonomous Altruists" ?"*

http://groups.google.com/group/econowmix/browse_thread/thread/4869fa005c611b16/70160b4dd49f128a?lnk=gst&q=autonomous#70160b4dd49f128a

which followed other threads such as

*"priority users" in F2F altruist economics *

http://groups.google.com/group/econowmix/browse_thread/thread/e20360d6e60338a7


and a question regarding experimenting in the form of ( potentially
inventing ? ) a
game<http://groups.google.com/group/econowmix/browse_thread/thread/83ee54f77441807/b421dab1a1d079e4?lnk=gst&q=collaborative+financial+interface+%3F#b421dab1a1d079e4>(
a board game ? )

Perhaps some of you know of such kind of "altruistic" games ?


On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 2:34 PM, Alex Rollin <alex.rollin at gmail.com> wrote:

> This is useful for enlightened self-interest, which, in short, smears the
> definition of altruism, by and large, but gives some context:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlightened_self-interest#Altruism
>
> Altruism
>
> Enlightened self-interest is also different from pure altruism<http://wiki/Altruism>,
>> which calls for people to act in the interest of others often at the expense
>> of their own interests and with no expectation of benefit for themselves in
>> the future. Some advocates of enlightened self-interest might argue that
>> pure altruism promotes inefficiency <http://wiki/Inefficiency> as well.
>
>  [edit<http://w/index.php?title=Enlightened_self-interest&action=edit&section=6>
> ]
>
> Economics
>
>
>    -
>
>    E. E. "Doc" Smith <http://wiki/E._E._Smith>, in his science fiction
>    book "Subspace Explorers <http://wiki/Subspace_Explorers>", posited an
>    economic formula that would control profits and bonuses, which he referred
>    to as "The principle of enlightened self-interest".
>
>
>
> The wikipedia entry makes the point of actors understanding the needs of
> others, acting in others interest, and that this behavior has no consequence
> to their own self interest.  This is a combinatorial definition, using the
> other definitions of altruism and adding on to them.
>
> The Nash Equilibirum demonstrates the validity and utility of this kind of
> enlightened self-interest:
>
> http://variagate.com/equilib.htm?beaumind
>
> I've been writing a page about a p2p relational system
> http://p2pfoundation.net/P2P_Relational_System
>
> I have some content on self-interest and how enlightened interest plays
> out.
>
> EE Doc Smith is mentioned above.  He wrote over a long period, and created
> the lensman series.  The main characters are "incorruptible" people who are
> given the gift of telepathic communication and guide the way to the
> expansion of the human race throughout two galaxies.  Through the 13 or so
> novels of his that I've read the characters, the main characters, are always
> in total 'knowing' of their self-interest, and their "gifts" allow them to
> trust each other.  Indeed the greatest threats to the universe are always
> those that seek to break that trust.  These are characters who never submit,
> never give up, know exactly what they need, and are always willing to say
> they dont know, they can't yet, or that they need help.
>
> That is an impossible set of attributes.  So, what then....
>
> People iterate.  Through processes of greater and lesser knowing.  Of
> trying, failing and picking a new direction.
>
> Questioning the self-interest of someone, or looking for altruism, are
> useless without knowing ones self.  That's my contention.
>
> That is why Ayn Rand's flavor is called rational altruism.
>
> There's a favorite saying of mine:  "Know thyself and you will know the
> universe and all its Gods."
>
> I add, know thyself and it will be easier to screw yourself over than for
> someone to take advantage of you. Then you don't need to concern yourself
> with altruism, either.
>
> A
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 8:59 AM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> interesting distinction of altruism below, as found by Dante,
>>
>> it sheds light on differences like the one between Ryan, who just today
>> saw the culture of the poor as responsible for their plight, and my own
>> response to that,
>>
>> see here, the source is below:
>>
>> Politically conservative individuals tend to attribute the causes for a
>> victim's plight (e.g., poverty, homelessness) internally
>> Less sympathy is generated for the victim and consequently less help is
>> given
>> Tendency to hold a belief in a just world (everyone gets what they deserve
>> and deserves what they get)
>> Politically liberal individuals are more likely to make external
>> attributions (e.g., to society) for a victim's plight
>> More sympathy is aroused and more helping occurs
>> Less of a tendency toward just world thinking
>>
>> **
>>
>>
>>
>> Tec defines two forms of altruism:
>> Normative altruism: Altruism that is supported and encouraged by cultural
>> norms
>> Autonomous altruism: Individually-based altruism that is not supported,
>> and may even be discouraged, by cultural norms
>>
>> Defining Altruism
>> Prosocial behavior: Any behavior that benefits others
>> Helping behavior: Behavior that benefits others that is performed with the
>> anticipation of some reward
>> Focus is on the self more than on the victim
>> Egoism is the dominant motive
>> Donating to a charity to get a tax break
>> Helping a friend so she will help you in return
>> Altruism: Selfless help that is performed without the anticipation of
>> reward
>> Focus is on relieving the suffering of the victim and not consequences to
>> the self
>> Empathy is the dominant underlying motive
>> Anonymous donation to charity
>> Teacher in Littleton, CO Columbine shootings
>>
>> Politically conservative individuals tend to attribute the causes for a
>> victim's plight (e.g., poverty, homelessness) internally
>> Less sympathy is generated for the victim and consequently less help is
>> given
>> Tendency to hold a belief in a just world (everyone gets what they deserve
>> and deserves what they get)
>> Politically liberal individuals are more likely to make external
>> attributions (e.g., to society) for a victim's plight
>> More sympathy is aroused and more helping occurs
>> Less of a tendency toward just world thinking
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 9:25 PM, Dante-Gabryell Monson <
>> dante.monson at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In relation to "Incentives", including in p2p relational dynamics,
>>>
>>> When doing some searches as to understand  differences of spectrum
>>> between "Autonomous Altruists" and "Collaborative Individualists" ,
>>>
>>> ( related links http://delicious.com/deliciousdante/principles , and a
>>> related group discussion : http://tiny.cc/28ti1<http://groups.google.com/group/econowmix/browse_thread/thread/4869fa005c611b16/70160b4dd49f128a?lnk=gst&q=autonomous#70160b4dd49f128a>
>>>  )
>>>
>>> I found out about this page :
>>>
>>> http://users.ipfw.edu/bordens/social/help.htm
>>>
>>> and wish to share some excerpts,
>>> related to defining altruism,
>>> but also to the influence on attributions from political views ( liberal
>>> or conservative )
>>>
>>> ---------
>>>
>>>
>>>    - Tec defines two forms of altruism:
>>>       - *Normative altruism*: Altruism that is supported and encouraged
>>>       by cultural norms
>>>       - *Autonomous altruism*: Individually-based altruism that is not
>>>       supported, and may even be discouraged, by cultural norms
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    - Defining Altruism
>>>       - *Prosocial behavior:* Any behavior that benefits others
>>>       - *Helping behavior:* Behavior that benefits others that is
>>>       performed with the anticipation of some reward
>>>          - Focus is on the self more than on the victim
>>>             - Egoism is the dominant motive
>>>             - Donating to a charity to get a tax break
>>>             - Helping a friend so she will help you in return
>>>          - *Altruism:* Selfless help that is performed without the
>>>       anticipation of reward
>>>          - Focus is on relieving the suffering of the victim and not
>>>          consequences to the self
>>>          - Empathy is the dominant underlying motive
>>>             - Anonymous donation to charity
>>>             - Teacher in Littleton, CO Columbine shootings
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    - Politically conservative individuals tend to attribute the causes
>>>    for a victim's plight (e.g., poverty, homelessness) internally
>>>       - Less sympathy is generated for the victim and consequently less
>>>       help is given
>>>       - Tendency to hold a belief in a just world (everyone gets what
>>>       they deserve and deserves what they get)
>>>    - Politically liberal individuals are more likely to make external
>>>    attributions (e.g., to society) for a victim's plight
>>>       - More sympathy is aroused and more helping occurs
>>>       - Less of a tendency toward just world thinking
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> note :
>>> I m interested in finding out the categories that best relate to this -
>>> potentially
>>> http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:Relational<http://videos.p2pfoundation.net/Category:Relational>
>>> http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:Participation<http://videos.p2pfoundation.net/Category:Participation>
>>>
>>> and other incentive related pages ?
>>>
>>> perhaps also http://p2pfoundation.net/Altruism<http://videos.p2pfoundation.net/Altruism>
>>>  ,
>>> http://p2pfoundation.net/Relational_Model_Typology_-_Fiske
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>>
>> Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
>> http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
>>
>> Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
>> http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>>
>> Think tank: http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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