[p2p-research] ecotechnic future

[Alex Rollin]

I have heard the argument that peer production requires internet and
high-tech tools but I don't think this is the case.  The assertion is often
made in the context of p2p as software production only, and doesn't often
extend to peer networks engaging commons based practices that are not in
software.  Many worker owned cooperatives could qualify as commons based
peer produced enterprises, in my view.  That these enterprises don't or
can't engage more complex analysis may mean they cannot join other networks
but it doesn't mean they aren't networks themselves.   I'm thinking of  a
worker owned brewery in Amsterdam.

A

On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 11:45 AM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>wrote:

> hi joss,
>
> you could be right, hypothesing on greer's point of view, that our p2p
> approach has a fatal flaw, it is it's reliance on the further existence of
> networked communication,
>
> but precisely because greer himself posits a long and phased descent, I
> think it is likely that even when the globalized peak oil regime collapses,
> local communities will have enough resources to adapt or modify the new
> universal info and communication infrastructure ...
>
> what do other think, this is a very crucial point for the human future?
>
> Michel
>
> On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 4:15 PM, Joss Winn <joss at josswinn.org> wrote:
>
>> On 19/07/10 07:08, Michel Bauwens wrote:
>> > Hi Kevin,
>> >
>> > feel free to take any take you want, though I believe that Greer's
>> > thinking is actually quite sophisticated and precise, and he's not at
>> > all a simple-minded primitivist ..
>>
>> I'd second that.
>>
>> >
>> > his current project is to create a huge commons for appropriate
>> > technology knowledge that could be used for local communities,
>> >
>> > I'm not sure what his take is on networked technology,
>>
>> I think he envisages its decline. I'm pretty certain I've read comments
>> to that effect. Here's a post which is typical:
>>
>> http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.com/2010/03/logic-of-abundance.html
>>
>>
>> >
>> > his response to my emails were: "read my book" <g>
>> >
>>
>> I've read his Long Descent, which I enjoyed. For a shorter statement on
>> his collapse theory, see:
>>
>> http://www.ecoshock.org/transcripts/greer_on_collapse.pdf
>>
>> It's worth keeping in mind that for Greer, we are already in a process
>> of collapse - it is not something in the future but a historical,
>> observable fact. For Greer, Peak Oil, declining net energy, ecological
>> overshoot, financial collapse, etc. attest to this.
>>
>> I think he would support the pragmatism of P2P but find the centrality
>> of and reliance on networked communication to be its fatal flaw. If you
>> buy the theory of net energy depletion (http://www.esf.edu/efb/hall/),
>> it suggests that the energy intensive lives of developed countries will
>> decline to a level that can be supported by fairly simple renewable
>> energy (remember that current renewable energy is built with fossil
>> fuels - a world of renewables built on renewables is not the same).
>>
>> As far as technology is concerned, Greer advocates stuff like home-made
>> solar showers and learning the use of a slide ruler:
>>
>>
>> http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.com/2007/01/principles-for-sustainable-tech.html
>>
>> Joss
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> p2presearch mailing list
>> p2presearch at listcultures.org
>>  http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
>>
>
>
>
> --
> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>
> Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
> http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
>
> Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
> http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>
> Think tank: http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> p2presearch mailing list
> p2presearch at listcultures.org
> http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listcultures.org/pipermail/p2presearch_listcultures.org/attachments/20100720/80437e46/attachment.html>