[p2p-research] problems with the wiki

[Alex Rollin]

You misdirect and misleed. I am not afraid.  I am merely a contributor.

A
On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 5:02 PM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com> wrote:
> we've been true this a few times Alex,
>
> again, I appreciate your contributions, and you will have noticed that I
> have tweeted and facebooked quite a few of them,
>
> I also believe you when you say that you have done all those things, but
> again, whenever I asked for examples, I NEVER got them, I find that odd, but
> cannot imagine that you are inventing this, so, so be it, I'm assuming these
> were secret projects for organisations that didn't like publicity
>
> Indeed, I only run and sustain one community, imperfectly, and try to
> maintain an ecology of content, imperfectly,
>
> but from there to accept that all is a mess, and that we need an
> authoritarian saviour who knows best, is for me a bridge to far, and this is
> for me, what triggered this discussion ... it's probably an alpha male
> thing, but as a non-alpha male, but with a strong sense of (co) -ownership
> (probably not the right word ..) of the project, I feel very concerned ...
>
> Undoubtedly you have your reasons to do what you do, but I personally would
> find it wiser to put energy in things which the main users appreciate as
> bonuses, rather than to increase the technical requirements necessary to add
> and edit content ...
>
> I just don't understand the "I know it better and here's how you gonna do
> it, my way or the highway'  thing ...
>
> Believe me, I don't derive any pleasure in getting worked up in the defense
> of the status quo ante of free editing with only a minimal amount of tech
> knowledge
>
> Again, we use different vocabularies, imposing technical solutions without
> prior discussion or consensus, is not collaboration in my book ...
>
> On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 9:50 PM, Alex Rollin <alex.rollin at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Accusing me of wasting time doesn't make it true Michel.  When did you
>> build your last web application?
>>
>> How many online communities have you run?
>>
>> How many users have you signed up in your lifetime?
>>
>> I have published millions of pages Michel.  I used to get 180 million
>> impressions a month.
>>
>> I work here and invite others and clean up the mess.  I re-use the
>> content.  I'm building on and with the knowledge commons.  Adapt, or
>> not, whatever.  You are not the only editor.  Nothing I've done has
>> been destructive or 'deletionist'.  Your metaphor is incorrect.  It is
>> called collaboration.  This is how you do it, instead of writing about
>> it.
>>
>> Alex
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 4:39 PM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > again, I have nothing against transclusions 'as such', but if they are
>> > problematic for the integrity and diversity of pages of categories I
>> > would
>> > move them,
>> >
>> > I suppose you are saying that you are preparing for edit wars and
>> > endless
>> > revisions a la bush-gore wars in the wikipedia ...
>> >
>> > sorry if I do not find this constructive, and a bad use of time,
>> >
>> > I have another more elegant solution, why don't you create a
>> > p2pfoundation.com, where you can put all the positivistic content (which
>> > I
>> > applaud and appreciate), but also try out the various technocratic
>> > solutions
>> > and widgets, so that people can try and experiment with them, no
>> > quesitons
>> > asked ... once they are working well there, you can homeopathically
>> > introduce them, but not impose them, in the main wiki?
>> >
>> > It would really be a shame to waste time in edit wars ...
>> >
>> > On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 9:35 PM, Alex Rollin <alex.rollin at gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 3:25 PM, Michel Bauwens
>> >> <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > Alex,
>> >> >
>> >> > I'm only defensive, because, instead of just listening to users and
>> >> > authors
>> >> > of the wiki, you want to impose your solutions, which may be
>> >> > appropriate
>> >> > for
>> >> > some users, not for others.
>> >>
>> >> These are not dictatorial solutions.  I do listen.  I talked to the
>> >> guy who wrote the content in question that you copied. You are being
>> >> inflammatory in addition to being defensive.
>> >>
>> >> > I have to be clear in defending the integrity of the content,
>> >> > because,
>> >> > from
>> >> > experience, you do not "hear" easily otherwise,
>> >>
>> >> You are wrong.  I do hear.  You do not always listen or make clear
>> >> requests.  You have options.  I do not always do what people tell me.
>> >>
>> >> > you do not have to ask permission, but you can't impose ...
>> >>
>> >> I do not impose, but I do edit, just like you.
>> >>
>> >> > I tried to edit the public property page, and could not, so I ask
>> >> > patrick to
>> >> > undo it, it's not complicated
>> >>
>> >> Ask a question next time, maybe? instead of ... you know... freaking
>> >> out, maybe?  Please?
>> >>
>> >> > same in the case of the transclusion, I don't want to use this
>> >> > transclusion
>> >> > in a particular category, you re-instate and want to impose it, and
>> >> > even
>> >> > announce a vision of the wiki  that I find horrifying ... a vision
>> >> > which
>> >> > you
>> >> > have never discussed with anybody.
>> >>
>> >> I can edit the category like other users, yes.  I will probably do it
>> >> again, too.
>> >>
>> >> > I didn't insult anybody, nor made any personal attacks, read again,
>> >> > but
>> >> > faced with defensiveness and a restriction of the freedom to edit, I
>> >> > had
>> >> > to
>> >> > push back,
>> >>
>> >> Ah, but you could not judge that all by yourself, though, could you?
>> >> What do you consider hyperbole, anyways?  Or unchecked assumptions?
>> >>
>> >> > I did not see any phrase in the previous correspondence where you
>> >> > offered to
>> >> > repair or make good, only defenses that your solution was the proper
>> >> > one,
>> >> > that I should follow it, and in case of problems, spent time with the
>> >> > manual
>> >>
>> >> I did undo the edits in a way that reflected your wishes as to what
>> >> content appeared on the page and informed you by email.  Don't be a
>> >> pill and make me produce the thread.  Besides, you can see the fix in
>> >> the edits on the wiki.  Plus I wrote extensive documentation on how
>> >> the solution works and sent you 3 emails last week and this week
>> >> asking you to review the protocol.  Don't even try it...
>> >>
>> >> A
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  -
>> > http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>> >
>> > Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
>> > http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
>> >
>> > Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
>> > http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>> >
>> > Think tank: http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>
>
>
> --
> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>
> Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
> http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
>
> Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
> http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>
> Think tank: http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>
>
>
>
>