[p2p-research] problems with the wiki

Fri Jul 16 17:02:48 CEST 2010

we've been true this a few times Alex,

again, I appreciate your contributions, and you will have noticed that I
have tweeted and facebooked quite a few of them,

I also believe you when you say that you have done all those things, but
again, whenever I asked for examples, I NEVER got them, I find that odd, but
cannot imagine that you are inventing this, so, so be it, I'm assuming these
were secret projects for organisations that didn't like publicity

Indeed, I only run and sustain one community, imperfectly, and try to
maintain an ecology of content, imperfectly,

but from there to accept that all is a mess, and that we need an
authoritarian saviour who knows best, is for me a bridge to far, and this is
for me, what triggered this discussion ... it's probably an alpha male
thing, but as a non-alpha male, but with a strong sense of (co) -ownership
(probably not the right word ..) of the project, I feel very concerned ...

Undoubtedly you have your reasons to do what you do, but I personally would
find it wiser to put energy in things which the main users appreciate as
bonuses, rather than to increase the technical requirements necessary to add
and edit content ...

I just don't understand the "I know it better and here's how you gonna do
it, my way or the highway'  thing ...

Believe me, I don't derive any pleasure in getting worked up in the defense
of the status quo ante of free editing with only a minimal amount of tech
knowledge

Again, we use different vocabularies, imposing technical solutions without
prior discussion or consensus, is not collaboration in my book ...

On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 9:50 PM, Alex Rollin <alex.rollin at gmail.com> wrote:

> Accusing me of wasting time doesn't make it true Michel.  When did you
> build your last web application?
>
> How many online communities have you run?
>
> How many users have you signed up in your lifetime?
>
> I have published millions of pages Michel.  I used to get 180 million
> impressions a month.
>
> I work here and invite others and clean up the mess.  I re-use the
> content.  I'm building on and with the knowledge commons.  Adapt, or
> not, whatever.  You are not the only editor.  Nothing I've done has
> been destructive or 'deletionist'.  Your metaphor is incorrect.  It is
> called collaboration.  This is how you do it, instead of writing about
> it.
>
> Alex
>
> On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 4:39 PM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > again, I have nothing against transclusions 'as such', but if they are
> > problematic for the integrity and diversity of pages of categories I
> would
> > move them,
> >
> > I suppose you are saying that you are preparing for edit wars and endless
> > revisions a la bush-gore wars in the wikipedia ...
> >
> > sorry if I do not find this constructive, and a bad use of time,
> >
> > I have another more elegant solution, why don't you create a
> > p2pfoundation.com, where you can put all the positivistic content (which
> I
> > applaud and appreciate), but also try out the various technocratic
> solutions
> > and widgets, so that people can try and experiment with them, no
> quesitons
> > asked ... once they are working well there, you can homeopathically
> > introduce them, but not impose them, in the main wiki?
> >
> > It would really be a shame to waste time in edit wars ...
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 9:35 PM, Alex Rollin <alex.rollin at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 3:25 PM, Michel Bauwens <
> michelsub2004 at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> > Alex,
> >> >
> >> > I'm only defensive, because, instead of just listening to users and
> >> > authors
> >> > of the wiki, you want to impose your solutions, which may be
> appropriate
> >> > for
> >> > some users, not for others.
> >>
> >> These are not dictatorial solutions.  I do listen.  I talked to the
> >> guy who wrote the content in question that you copied. You are being
> >> inflammatory in addition to being defensive.
> >>
> >> > I have to be clear in defending the integrity of the content, because,
> >> > from
> >> > experience, you do not "hear" easily otherwise,
> >>
> >> You are wrong.  I do hear.  You do not always listen or make clear
> >> requests.  You have options.  I do not always do what people tell me.
> >>
> >> > you do not have to ask permission, but you can't impose ...
> >>
> >> I do not impose, but I do edit, just like you.
> >>
> >> > I tried to edit the public property page, and could not, so I ask
> >> > patrick to
> >> > undo it, it's not complicated
> >>
> >> Ask a question next time, maybe? instead of ... you know... freaking
> >> out, maybe?  Please?
> >>
> >> > same in the case of the transclusion, I don't want to use this
> >> > transclusion
> >> > in a particular category, you re-instate and want to impose it, and
> even
> >> > announce a vision of the wiki  that I find horrifying ... a vision
> which
> >> > you
> >> > have never discussed with anybody.
> >>
> >> I can edit the category like other users, yes.  I will probably do it
> >> again, too.
> >>
> >> > I didn't insult anybody, nor made any personal attacks, read again,
> but
> >> > faced with defensiveness and a restriction of the freedom to edit, I
> had
> >> > to
> >> > push back,
> >>
> >> Ah, but you could not judge that all by yourself, though, could you?
> >> What do you consider hyperbole, anyways?  Or unchecked assumptions?
> >>
> >> > I did not see any phrase in the previous correspondence where you
> >> > offered to
> >> > repair or make good, only defenses that your solution was the proper
> >> > one,
> >> > that I should follow it, and in case of problems, spent time with the
> >> > manual
> >>
> >> I did undo the edits in a way that reflected your wishes as to what
> >> content appeared on the page and informed you by email.  Don't be a
> >> pill and make me produce the thread.  Besides, you can see the fix in
> >> the edits on the wiki.  Plus I wrote extensive documentation on how
> >> the solution works and sent you 3 emails last week and this week
> >> asking you to review the protocol.  Don't even try it...
> >>
> >> A
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  -
> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
> >
> > Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
> > http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
> >
> > Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
> > http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
> >
> > Think tank: http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

-- 
P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net

Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org

Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
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Think tank: http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
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