[p2p-research] What comes next?

Wed Jul 14 07:51:38 CEST 2010

there is evidence that those that apply open and free, participatory,
commons oriented practices, as evidenced by the growth of open innovation,
co-creation, co-design, crowdsourcing, and commons -oriented peer
production, are innovating at a higher rate than those functioning in closed
fashions ...

there is evidence that a new combination of productive resources around
knowledge, code and design commons is forming the seed of a new system with
a substantially different logic ..

this evidence is not irrefutable, but strong enough to warrant discussion,
and to fuel visions and hypotheses such as the ones we are discussing here

there is also strong evidence that the continued existence of capitalism in
its present form, will lead to unspeakable human and social catastrophes,
and that it's paradigm of value is not sustainable in the long run ..

where is the evidence for a return to feudalism (in the real technical
sense, with people bound to the land paying tribute to a warrior class
supported by a particular type of salvation-based religion) ?

at the very most, you can use a few feudal analogies in that the emerging
system has some characteristics reminiscent of feudalism, but if there is
more than that, I'd like to hear it ..

However, because of the unsustainability of the current version of
capitalism (and some will argue of capitalism as such as an infinite growth
requiring system), it is very unlikely that th enew system will produce
value "at the level of capitalism"

Past phase transitions were always not just a continuation of the old
system, but a very deep change of social logic ... Feudalism was not a
continuation of the roman empire, and capitalism not a continuation of
feudalism, similarly a successor system will not be a continuation of
capitalism ...

Since we cannot produce capitalist desires at a world level without 3.5
planets and are already eating up the world's reserves at faster than
reproduction rates, something will have to give ..

Michel

On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 10:23 PM, Ryan Lanham <rlanham1963 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Of course we can go back to feaudalism and some will survive and carry on.
> The question is, can something produce value at the level of capitalism in a
> form that people rationally accept as desireable.  I doub that can be the
> case.  There is no evidence anything else begins to work as well as
> capitalism.
>
> R.
>
>   On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 9:20 AM, Alex Rollin <alex.rollin at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Can I get an Amen!
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 3:58 PM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > great exactly my point!
>> >
>> > On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 8:57 PM, Joss Winn <joss at josswinn.org> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On 13/07/10 14:14, Michel Bauwens wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > for example, as ostrom shows, you can have fisheries that are owned
>> by a
>> >> > community, yet allow individual fishing rights and trading of the
>> fish,
>> >> > provided the stock is not depleted.
>> >> >
>> >> > I do believe then, that a commons approach should not be wedded to a
>> >> > single proposed mode of allocation, but can be compatible with the
>> >> > largest possible human freedom, such as the freedom to trade and to
>> >> > market,
>> >>
>> >> It is worth reminding ourselves that commerce can, did and does exist
>> >> without capitalism, as is discussed very well in this article and
>> >> related book:
>> >>
>> >> http://www.monthlyreview.org/798wood.htm
>> >> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Origin-Capitalism-Longer-View/dp/1859843921/
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > why not call it capitalism, well in my case, because of the infinite
>> >> > growth argument, but I'm actually perfectly happy with green
>> capitalism,
>> >> > natural capitalism, and other similar movements,
>> >> >
>> >> > when you look at them closely, they are really about the freedom to
>> >> > trade, not about infinite growth, hence they are market approaches
>> but
>> >> > prefer to use the term capitalism for cultural and political reasons,
>> >> > because it is associated with dynamic enterpreneurship etc..
>> >> >
>> >>
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>> >
>> > Think tank:
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>> >
>> >
>> >
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>
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> rlanham1963 at gmail.com
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