[p2p-research] communism is silly

Mon Jul 12 12:34:08 CEST 2010

I didn't realize 'communism' was about all that: Energy, the
environment, economic freedom, innovation, the end of selfishness... 

Wow. I had thought it was merely a translation of Rousseau's urbane
notions of tribalism into the field of economics (combined with a
generous "borrowing" off Hegel of course). But lo-- communism is many
many things it turns out. More than simply a critique of capitalism, or
the forced manufacture of equality, it appears to be the swiss army
knife of economic revolution. 

Tell me Michel, what technology, democratic practice, or medical
innovation has a Marxist ever invented? Why in the history of
experiments with communism was there no democratic communist state? 

Call P2P commonism if you like but the continued harping on a dead
eurocentric philosopher who couldn't even feed his family is
ridiculous. Collectivism is your hope not mine, so I'd prefer not to
soil the promise of networked production with the adolescent silliness
of class war and a "proletarian revolution". 

D

Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 12:55:14 +0700
From: michelsub2004 at gmail.com
To: p2presearch at listcultures.org
Subject: Re: [p2p-research] recommended video by zizek

most of the speakers specificially disavow such romantic yearning for a perfect future, and speak of the actual movement to create non-commodiized social relations, here and now ... this is something that I presume most people sympathetic to peer to peer are doing ... while the success of this is historically mitigated, the refusal to see humans as only commodified social relations and the continued practice of commoning, is really what sustains civilisations, which would collapse without it ..

romanticism, or 'positive hope' or 'false utopian expectations', are not characteristic of one particular side, since 1989 they were most prominently characteristic of the so-called free-market right, which so spectacularly failed in 2008,

at this stage, the left has a much firmer grasp of 'negativity', i.e. social and environmental externalities, costs and dangers, than anyone in the grasp of elite politics, free market absollutism, enterpreneurial romanticism, or transhumanist technological determinism, all dreaming for magical solutions that will wipe way all the real problems humanity is facing at this stage

what is the left really about, in its core, is expanding the field of opportunity to all, and the democratized choice of any policy which affects any individual, while the right hope that the free rein to the elite, restricting decision-making to moneyed interests, and letting the top 1%  grab the lion's share of the social product, will magically and romantically 'trickle down' ..

hoping that one day you will read evidence-based literature such as

- the spirit level, http://p2pfoundation.net/Why_Greater_Equality_Makes_Societies_Stronger and http://p2pfoundation.net/Just_Give_Money_to_the_Poor

what they show is that while neoliberalism has dramatically restricted post 1973 growth levels, most of the countries with high growth rates, such as Brazil, adopted more equitable social policies ...

I think a possible exception to this might be China, though your colleague Jan Niederveen Peterse calls it a 'social capitalism' as well, but is is the one BRIC country where social equality decreased ... but frankly would you want to live in a FOXCONN compound ..?

On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 7:14 AM, Daniel Araya <levelsixmedia at hotmail.com> wrote:

I will maintain the romantic fiction that communism remains to be fully actualized somewhere somehow in spite of half a century of failed attempts across the planet if you'd like Michel ;)

(I just prefer science fiction to romantic fiction myself. Never been a fan of Rousseau...)

D

Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2010 19:50:14 +0700 

From: michelsub2004 at gmail.com
To: p2presearch at listcultures.org

Subject: Re: [p2p-research] recommended video by zizek 

hi daniel,

let's not have this discussion stalinist totalitarianism = communism, you should know better ... I'm assuming that your studies did include a minimum of political theory ?

your example is about just the opposite of what callinicos, himself a trotskyist, would mean under communism ..

Michel

On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 7:37 PM, Daniel Araya <levelsixmedia at hotmail.com> wrote:

It strikes me as funny that Callinicos seeks the museum of Capitalism in a Communist era when it would seem to work the other way: Take a trip to Burma or Cuba or North Korea and you find the living museums of communism in the era of global capitalism...

'So often the vocabulary of the previous wave of emancipation is taken as
the standard for the next – as if all subsequent waves of emancipation
should carry the banner of Voltaire and Diderot, of Marx or Che Guevara.

As if secularism should be the touchstone for all newcomers to the
gate – emancipation frozen in time, gilded, decorated and elevated on
a pedestal, such as French laiciteì'.

D

Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2010 11:41:43 +0700
From: michelsub2004 at gmail.com
To: p2presearch at listcultures.org

CC: david at bollier.org; ronfeldt at mac.com; Silke.Helfrich at gmx.de

Subject: [p2p-research] recommended video by zizek 

http://versouk.wordpress.com/2010/07/07/idea-of-communism-callinicos-zizek-holloway-at-marxism/

this video is really worth viewing and listening to, in order to have an idea of left thinking today ...

alex callinicos presents the more traditional view, but zizek really rocks here, and if his nervous mannerisms irk you, just close your eyes

both speakers confront the idea of the commons, talk about recent events in China, and much more,

didn't get myself yet to the third speaker, john holloway ..

Michel
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