[p2p-research] a new funding mechanism for useful online services

[Michel Bauwens]

Hi Sepp,

I agree with your points but don't see that multinational aspect necessarily
missing in my view ... but perhaps it does.

As you suggest, some things, like space exploration, may actually require a
large scale organisation, so possibly/probably broadly relocalized
manufacturing and global knowledge sharing networks, are not enough.

In the Middle Ages, the Catholic Church was the instrument of scale, think
the Crusades, despite the local fragmentation .. what could be such an agent
in a world with p2p as its core?

perhaps something akin to the FLOSS Foundations?

Ryan, concerning the transition, I think that there a look at history might
give lessons.

Of course, our present is different and the future 'unpredictable',

nevertheless, cycles do exist (see carlota perez book for that), and sudden
system crashes have existed for at least 5 times before, with pretty
consistent pictures of their aftermath; also big phase transitions, from
rome to feudalism, from feudalism to capitalism, have occured as well.

I think that does allow us to say certain things,

when I say 'capitalism is dying', you say you agree with that 'in the long
term',.

but then, what is your long term,

for me, it's 30 to 50 years away, and it needs to be to avert climate
catastrophe on a massive scale, and do deal with its aftermaths if it does
occur,

that doesn't mean a guaranteed p2p future, but it does mean humanity will
look to replace a failing system with something else,

Michel




On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 8:52 PM, Ryan Lanham <rlanham1963 at gmail.com> wrote:

>   On 1/5/10, Ryan Lanham <rlanham1963 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On 1/5/10, Sepp Hasslberger <sepp at lastrega.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> What I see happening is that p2p will be taking much of the current
>>> playing field of those large corporations and converting what they are
>>> providing into direct p2p interaction and services. That leaves them with
>>> little to do, and I can't imagine them just folding up and going home. So a
>>> new, outward-directed field of play for those entities would seem to be a
>>> necessity, and a guarantee for harmonious development in the future.
>>
>>
>> Hi Sepp,
>>
>> I agree with your assessment in the long term.  I have trouble envisioning
>> transitions.  I say what you said in several ways:
>>
>> 1. Corporate profits are harder to come by.
>> 2. Because of (1) the credit economy is not working.
>> 3. Over 40% of US profits are earned by investment banks or large
>> banks...not sustainable.
>> 4. Worker satisfaction in the US is at all-time lows--only 45% of
>> employees are satisfied with their work.
>> 5. Most of the developed world (though not so much the US) is entering an
>> acute but prolonged demographic crisis.  Europe and Japan are particularly
>> at risk here.  Fertility rates in Germany are now below 1.3 ... that is a
>> society ending number in two generations.  US population will be 3x that of
>> Russia by 2050...a remarkable number for us old Cold Warriors.
>> 6. Africa, India, China and much of South/Central America are becoming
>> middle class.
>> 7. Technology innovation is clearly accelerating.
>>
>> Those are points where I start.  I then set 2020, 2030, 2040, 2050 out on
>> a piece of paper and try to come to some paths or conclusions that seem to
>> lead to the world you describe (which I agree is a plausible and desirable
>> outcome).  I just don't get very far.
>>
>> Ryan
>>
>>
>>
>
> P.S.
>
> I would simply add that what is missing is a new general definition of
> individual and national wealth.  GDP is flawed.  Nations don't get rich by
> producing investment banking.  Some people do.  Stuff matters.  Yet we are
> entering an age of abundance of capacity for stuff...so that form of wealth
> is dying...this is what I hear when Michel says capitalism is dying (which I
> agree with...longer term.)
>
> P2P needs to redefine wealth.
>
> Ryan
>
>
>



-- 
Work: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University - Think thank:
http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI

P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net

Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org

Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listcultures.org/pipermail/p2presearch_listcultures.org/attachments/20100105/75f3e379/attachment.html>