[p2p-research] Fwd: What information systems are defined as "money/currency" ? Re: [tsolife-disc] elf Pavlik goes for an EuroTrip ...
Michel Bauwens
michelsub2004 at gmail.com
Sun Jan 3 03:20:14 CET 2010
One more forward from Dante.
Please note, thanks Sepp!, a new entry on Silvio Gesell, at
http://p2pfoundation.net/Silvio_Gesell
with links to explanations on how design actually affects money.
Dante: If David is interested in knowing about how open money actually
fundamentally differs from the current based system, see
http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:Money
see the intro articles:
Introduction
The P2P Foundation supports the direct social production of money, such as
for example through Open Money <http://p2pfoundation.net/Open_Money> and
other P2P Exchange Infrastructure
Projects<http://p2pfoundation.net/P2P_Exchange_Infrastructure_Projects>systems.
This marvellous presentation by Robin
Upton <http://www.altruists.org/f598> explains how this can work.
Key distinctions: Currencies <http://p2pfoundation.net/Currencies> ; Free
Currencies <http://p2pfoundation.net/Free_Currencies> ;
Wealth<http://p2pfoundation.net/Wealth>
For starters, read Eric Harris-Braun key argument: Why Monetary Design is
Important <http://p2pfoundation.net/Why_Monetary_Design_is_Important>
*Introductory Articles*
1. Read this excellent introduction to the negative role of
interest-based money by Charles
Eisenstein<http://www.realitysandwich.com/money_a_new_beginning>
2. Best current report on the topic: Creating New
Money<http://p2pfoundation.net/Creating_New_Money>:
A monetary reform for the information age. By Joseph Huber & James
Robertson. New Economics Foundation
3. Arthur Brock: Differences between Open Source and Open
Currencies<http://p2pfoundation.net/Differences_between_Open_Source_and_Open_Currencies>
4. Kevin Carson introduces the Peer
Money<http://p2pfoundation.net/Peer_Money>debates
5. Michel Bauwens on the Importance of Peer
Money<http://p2pfoundation.net/Michel_Bauwens_on_the_Importance_of_Peer_Money>
6. *Alan Rosenblith: We need P2P Architectures for
Money<http://p2pfoundation.net/P2P_Architectures_for_Money>
!!*
*Hot Topics:*
1. The historical experience of the Worgl
Shillings<http://p2pfoundation.net/Worgl_Shillings>
2. WIR Economic Circle
Cooperative<http://p2pfoundation.net/WIR_Economic_Circle_Cooperative>:
this 70-old Swiss mutual credit clearing system is getting traction as a
model for the rest of Europe
3. The creation of the Open Source Hardware Reserve
Bank<http://p2pfoundation.net/Open_Source_Hardware_Reserve_Bank>.
Details here<http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/the-economics-of-open-source-hardware-need-a-oshw-bank/2009/03/14>
4. The Metacurrency Project<http://p2pfoundation.net/Metacurrency_Project>:
the tci/ip platform for diverse currency creation: *see the
Flowspace<http://p2pfoundation.net/Flowspace>project
* as first attempt to establish sucn an infrastructure for Free
Currencies <http://p2pfoundation.net/Free_Currencies>
5. Open Coin<https://trac.opencoin.org/trac/opencoin/browser/trunk/standards/>:
an actual published open specification for creating distributed digital
currency
6. The Swedish interest-free JAK Bank <http://p2pfoundation.net/JAK_Bank>
[2] <http://www.feasta.org/documents/review2/carrie2.htm>
7. The Common Good Bank
<http://p2pfoundation.net/Common_Good_Bank>initiative
[3] <http://commongoodbank.com/>
8. The Resource Based
Economy<http://p2pfoundation.net/Resource_Based_Economy>,
a system in which money and barter serve no purpose
*Goals:*
1. Better redistribution of the existing
money<http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:Policy>
2. Transformation of the monetary
system<http://p2pfoundation.net/Monetary_Reform>through the social
production of money
3. Alternatives to money: Peer
Production<http://p2pfoundation.net/Peer_Production> ;
Gift Economy <http://p2pfoundation.net/Gift_Economy> ;
Sharing<http://p2pfoundation.net/Sharing>;
and other ways to assist in a transition to a more Resource Based
Economy<http://p2pfoundation.net/Resource_Based_Economy>through Peer
to Peer Exchanges <http://p2pfoundation.net/Peer_to_Peer_Exchanges> and P2P
Exchange Infrastructure
Projects<http://p2pfoundation.net/P2P_Exchange_Infrastructure_Projects>
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Dante-Gabryell Monson <dante.monson at gmail.com>
Date: Sun, Jan 3, 2010 at 9:04 AM
Subject: What information systems are defined as "money/currency" ? Re:
[tsolife-disc] elf Pavlik goes for an EuroTrip ...
To: tsolife-disc at lists.riseup.net, David Collins <david at indigo.uk.to>,
nomadbase at lists.0xb5.org, elf Pavlik <perpetual-tripper at wwelves.org>
Good to read your reply David
*" On the other hand, and unlike Dante, I don't see much merit in
alternative currencies or other exchange paradigms - either from an ethical
or a practical point of view.
I don't want to seem dogmatic, but I fail to see how they are significantly
better than conventional money. "*
*I guess it depends how we define money.*
*
*
Most alternative complementary currencies I heard of are "mutual credit"
type of monetary systems.
Perhaps one of the largest being th "Wir" :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WIR_Bank
also influenced by Silvio Gesell's ideas.
But there are other types of complementary currencies we can imagine or
create.
I will not go into detail on this in this mail.
To avoid such confusion, I sometimes use the term "Alternative and/or
complementary *resource allocation information system*"
And from my point of view, such information systems could easily be called
"currencies".
For example, in one gift economics platform called "freecycle"
http://www.freecycle.org/ , you have mailing lists organized by region or
city,
where people can announce what they want to give, and other people can
reply.
The same with Couchsurfing, except that it is probably a little more
complex, enabling access to visualizing subjective trust relations.
It is , from my point of view, a "resource allocation information system".
I imagine that such system could be extended to enable greater
organizational complexity,
enabling for example "requests for support" to become units, both
"measurable" and "subjective" units ( I remember Pavlik mentionned such
difference when meeting up with him )
I brainstormed this suggested architecture around such kind of "reversed
debt" ( currency ? ) kind of gift economics through an emergent resource
allocation information system here :
http://cashwiki.org/en/DebttoIntention
When are "units of information" in a resource allocation system definable as
a currency ?
Thanks for the links ! Glad to see you are on open manufacturing.
Are you also following up on the p2presearch list ?
or wiki, or blog and ning ?
blog :
http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/
wiki :
http://p2pfoundation.net/The_Foundation_for_P2P_Alternatives
list :
http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
http://listcultures.org/pipermail/p2presearch_listcultures.org/
ning :
http://p2pfoundation.ning.com/
I ll look into the CS forum you mentionned :-)
Greetings
Dante
On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 11:07 AM, David Collins <david at indigo.uk.to> wrote:
> Hi elf.
>
> Your attitude is inspiring.
> I don't necessarily agree with you in the many and varied details - but I
> think some of your ideas are bang on.
> For example: although I fundamentally disagree with the ideological
> underpinnings of the monetary economy, I am open to the possibility of
> limited participation in it for the foreseeable future.[1]
> Simultaneously, I aspire to share whatever I have in my possession with
> people I care about.
> On the other hand, and unlike Dante, I don't see much merit in alternative
> currencies or other exchange paradigms - either from an ethical or a
> practical point of view.
> I don't want to seem dogmatic, but I fail to see how they are significantly
> better than conventional money.
>
> If you're on couchsurfing, and if you have time at any stage, feel free to
> contribute to the "Gift economy" group:
> http://www.couchsurfing.org/group.html?gid=19609 .
> (I have reservations about even using the word "economy" in this context,
> but it's probably not worth getting bogged down in semantics right now.)
> Also, since you seem to be interested in bringing open-source principles to
> the real world, you might be interested in the open manufacturing group:
> http://groups.google.com/group/openmanufacturing .
> You might be disappointed by the attitude of many of the contributors
> towards money (I have been), but there is some exciting stuff discussed
> there.
>
> I'm in Ireland for the near future, but all the best in your travels.
>
> By the way: Happy new year everyone!
>
> Regards
> david
>
> [1] I think it's valid to draw on an analogy with software development. For
> example: after the founding of the Free Software Foundation in 1983/1984, it
> took about a decade to build a complete, free, GNU-based operating system
> (and then approximately another decade before it became sufficiently
> "user-friendly" for most people). In the meantime, a lot of people -
> including the developers of GNU/Linux - would have been using proprietary
> software. Why? Because it was the only option in many cases.
> Similarly, I think it's entirely practical on the one hand, but not
> unethical on the other, to partake in the monetary economy (at least to a
> certain extent) while the "freeconomy" is still in gestation, and until it
> is fully up and running - especiallly considering that the timescale
> involved could be significantly longer than in the case of free software. I
> don't want to seem pessimistic, but I'm not convinced that we'll actually
> ever achieve this alternative.
> (I'm not sure how clearly I articulated those thoughts - but hopefully you
> have some sense of what I'm getting at).
>
>
> ___________________________________________________
>
> Travelling School Of Life - mailing list
> tsolife-disc at lists.riseup.net
> http://lists.riseup.net/www/info/tsolife-disc
>
> About Riseup.net: http://help.riseup.net/about-us/
>
--
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