[p2p-research] conditions for successfull resilience

Mon Feb 8 18:10:20 CET 2010

this is a very fruitful path you are pursuing, developing a specific pattern
language for p2p?

Michel

On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 10:03 PM, Samuel Rose <samuel.rose at gmail.com> wrote:

> Michel,
>
> On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 9:35 PM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Hi Sam,
> >
> > I think you are right on target, and you are one of the people emintently
> > capable of bridging theory and practice.
> >
> > My case is very different, I have two left hands, so I choose a different
> > practice, that of internetworking and information/education through
> > permanent synthesis of what the movement is doing, thinking, learning ...
> > notice for example how the wiki is hardly what I say, but  rather
> organized
> > pilfering of the collective intelligence of the associated movements.
> This
> > is both my limitation, but also I think a quality, which has its place in
> > the overall technology.
>
> Yes, there is no downplaying of the value of p2p wiki and blog as
> knowledge, synthesis, analysis, and information sources of tremendous
> value. If all p2pf ever did was what it's doing now, it would be
> internationally valuable/foundational in the efforts of people to
> think about how to apply these concepts. So, no judgement is meant to
> be passed by me on theory building.
>
> The perspective that I am having is that people are increasingly
> asking me how to apply this theory. I am realizing that application of
> p2p theory has likely been viewed as being a massive undertaking,
> requiring huge resources, cultural and political barriers, and general
> difficulty. Plus, the fact is that the models/theories themselves were
> in need of intellectual rigor and exploration to create a core
> literacy of what is meant by all the main contributors to this way of
> thinking. There is no blanket definition. Yet, we (Forward Foundation)
> think there are core identifiable patterns that can be observed in all
> of the basic survival needs areas of humans. We are pushing this week
> to  publish this document and would love some feedback from this list
> when we do.
>
> The point I am getting to is that there are clues about how to
> effectively and efficiently apply p2p theory in p2p theory itself. It
> can inform design, economics, governance, education, science, resource
> interaction, etc. The working idea as I see it is usually that
> application begins on the scale of a person, connecting with and
> working with another person, and builds from there.
>
> > Of course, if everybody where doing the same, that
> > would be a disaster <g>. Thank god for the practitioners, and the
> boundary
> > spammers like you!
> >
> > in time, I hope to augment this with also offering guides to the
> practical
> > science and experience of the distributive transformation, i.e. courses
> > etc... but I will probably need help from others to negotiate this
> turn...
> >
> > your article is already excellent and wouldn't need much adaptation for
> the
> > blog, if you hadn't said so, I would  already used it as is,
> >
> > Michel
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 1:48 AM, Samuel Rose <samuel.rose at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> I am going to comment here while fresh in my mind, and then I will
> >> post and rework it into P2P blog
> >>
> >> Robb is right that there is not a 1:1 historical precedent for
> >> creating resilient communities centered around p2p networks (unless
> >> you consider the last 15 years and what people have established on the
> >> Internet, and are now transferring to general existence to be
> >> "history". Arguably there is a recent historical precedent in this
> >> form.)
> >>
> >> It's great to have theoretical models talking about community
> >> resilience and building p2p networks. I enjoy reading Robb for this
> >> reason. He covers this perspective really well, and challenges people
> >> to think about the dynamic nature of systems they are a part of. I am
> >> now of the opinion that what are asking for the most, in addition to
> >> these theoretical underpinnings, is practical guidance, in their
> >> communities, day to day, for building and sustaining actual resiliency
> >> and actual p2p network-based ways of operating in their own context
> >> right now, today. The fastest way to seeing this happen, in my
> >> opinion,  is by actually working with people in communities. There are
> >> varying degrees of people being ready to solve problems in this way.
> >> Most people generally lack a core understanding for surviving and
> >> thriving in an ecology that is network/systems-perspective, and
> >> P2P-political based. Yet, it is my experience in the last 2-3 years
> >> that people who are "on the fence" can be walked over to understanding
> >> this in steps and phases, driven by their own usually gradual
> >> acceptance of the core assumptions inherent in many-to-many systems.
> >>
> >> The illusion that some have operated under is that the industrial age
> >> paradigms can be somehow force-fit into these emerging systems. The
> >> reality is that industrial-age paradigms are fundamentally different
> >> than many-to-many systems.  John Robb understands and acknowledges
> >> this. So this paragraph is not about his writing, but about what I am
> >> adding to the discussion. The industrial paradigm is fundamentally
> >> about "control". The emerging p2p paradigm is fundamentally about
> >> distribution of control. I think a huge amount of people in
> >> communities realize this now. But, they look for guidance in
> >> succeeding in operating in participatory ecologies. Not controlling
> >> guidance, but guiding guidance. Guidance that offers clear paths to
> >> meeting basic fundamental survival needs while distributing control.
> >> For decades, following the commercial consolidation and decline of
> >> Agronomy-based communities in the US, we've all outsourced, and
> >> mortgaged our basic survival needs to industrial and commercial
> >> systems that tend to control in non-distributed ways. Those industrial
> >> systems benefited from us "users" having a narrow focus, guided by
> >> one-way mediums, and funneling resources away from our control as an
> >> "exchange" for food, energy, physical goods, culture "products", and
> >> access. The emerging system massively empowers the individual and
> >> people in their communities. But, having lived and worked in a
> >> previous and arguably collapsing system, so completely different from
> >> what is emerging, there is little available in the environment that
> >> helps many people understand how to operate in this new environment.
> >> Imagine getting into the seat of a Formula One race car, having never
> >> driven one before, and being expected to pull out into a track with
> >> cars wizzing past you at over 200kph, and you can have an idea of what
> >> this emerging environment is like for the majority of people.
> >>
> >> How do we help people learn to drive in this new race-car that,
> >> without them getting knocked off the track, or worse?  I think that
> >> those of us who build theory have an opportunity to also synthesize it
> >> into learning, and engage communities around the world that are ready
> >> to empower themselves to actually become resilient communities right
> >> now. Those of us who build tools also have an opportunity to help
> >> people learn how to use them to their full potential. In turn, those
> >> who benefit from the learning have an obligation to make sure that
> >> people who help foster and steward their path to resiliency are
> >> reciprocated back to fairly. I know, Michel, that you have realized
> >> this, and are working to create physical space in Thailand where you
> >> can do exactly what is described here, and likely more that I have not
> >> even fathomed. We are moving into a time of action, now that it is
> >> clear that the theory we have been building is sound in many ways
> >> (thanks to all of you who have dedicated yourselves to forging it). I
> >> think John Robb and many others are right, that if we do not act soon
> >> to make good on the promise of P2P systems, that we are headed towards
> >> a human evolutionary turn that many would likely deem undesirable.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 6:44 AM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com
> >
> >> wrote:
> >> > Hi Sam,
> >> >
> >> > if you have time, this might be something to comment on:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/globalguerrillas/2010/02/journal-driving-resilience-by-building-networks.html
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Work: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University - Think
> >> > thank:
> >> > http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
> >> >
> >> > P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  -
> >> > http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
> >> >
> >> > Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
> >> > http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
> >> >
> >> > Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
> >> > http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> --
> >> Sam Rose
> >> Forward Foundation
> >> Social Synergy
> >> Tel:+1(517) 639-1552
> >> Cel: +1-(517)-974-6451
> >> skype: samuelrose
> >> email: samuel.rose at gmail.com
> >> http://socialsynergyweb.com
> >> http://forwardfound.org
> >> http://socialsynergyweb.org/culturing
> >> http://flowsbook.panarchy.com/
> >> http://socialmediaclassroom.com
> >> http://localfoodsystems.org
> >> http://notanemployee.net
> >> http://communitywiki.org
> >>
> >> "The universe is not required to be in perfect harmony with human
> >> ambition." - Carl Sagan
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Work: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University - Think
> thank:
> > http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
> >
> > P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  -
> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
> >
> > Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
> > http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
> >
> > Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
> > http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> --
>  Sam Rose
> Forward Foundation
> Social Synergy
> Tel:+1(517) 639-1552
> Cel: +1-(517)-974-6451
> skype: samuelrose
> email: samuel.rose at gmail.com
> http://socialsynergyweb.com
> http://forwardfound.org
> http://socialsynergyweb.org/culturing
> http://flowsbook.panarchy.com/
> http://socialmediaclassroom.com
> http://localfoodsystems.org
> http://notanemployee.net
> http://communitywiki.org
>
> "The universe is not required to be in perfect harmony with human
> ambition." - Carl Sagan
>

-- 
Work: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University - Think thank:
http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI

P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net

Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org

Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
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