[p2p-research] Repurposing Profit for User Freedom

[Ryan Lanham]

On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 1:40 PM, Kevin Carson <
free.market.anticapitalist at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 2/5/10, Ryan Lanham <rlanham1963 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 2/5/10, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > but I am never arguing for that, so I find it strange that you always
> > bring that up ...
>
> > Excellent.  Then we can agree coercive state socialism (as in Cuba, China
> or
> > Venezeula) is not something either of us support.  And that people have
> the
> > right to property both real and intellectual and the right to protect
> that
> > property through mechanisms of the state.
>
>
>
>
I'm at a loss to see where you get the specific "agreement" above from
> Michel's renunciation of coercive socialism or communism.
>
>
I agree I combined two unrelated things probably unfairly.  But the point
is, only in coercive socialist regimes has there been large-scale rejection
of IP so fa=--that I know of...where state espionage of IP is a standard
practice.  Even there it is short-lived.  I'm told Cuba has a battery of IP
lawyers for their medical industry at present and relationships with top
international IP law firms.


> That a renunciation of coercive socialism entails recognizing a right
> to "intellectual property" [sic] and the right to protect it through
> the state strikes me as a monumental exercise in question-begging to
> the point of smugness, since it assumes that opposition to
> "intellectual property" [sic] equates to coercive socialism in the
> first place.  That latter assumption may be your belief, but it's
> wrong to attribute to others in interpreting their foreswearing of
> coercive socialism as an endorsement of IP.
>

OK.  Give me another example to cure my bias.  The only ones I know of in
practice are coercive socialist projects.  Generally only hegemonic states
that ignore rights established in other nation act broadly to nullify widely
held views such as the enforceability of IP law.  In modern times those tend
to be coercive socialist nations--unlike Michel I could easily put Venezuela
in that category as well as China.  It is a continuum, but both of these are
far closer to coercive socialism than not.  I harbor no sympathies for these
states.  I have great sympathies for those forced to live under them.  I
have personally discussed Cuba and China with many persons from those
places.  It would take much to convince me of their benign advantages given
the horror stories I've heard.  I know less about Venezuela but am actively
educating myself.  So far, I see a nation where democracy is under threat
through a sharp move toward nationalization as coercive socialism.  I would
be against that in most (but not all) circumstances.  Harry Truman in the US
was well justified in nationalizing steel industries.  It reversed quickly
however.  States ought not to own means of production in my view.  It is
unlikely such arrangements will be fair or efficient--but not impossible.

Regardless, I am not excited in any way about individuals knocking of Coco
Chanel purses or people copying a song to their MP3 player.  Big deal.  I am
against systematic violation of the right of people to their own property
(as I and most legal systems see it.)


> It would be similarly impermissible for me to infer that you opposed
> IP law, just because you foreswore coercive fascist corporatism.
>
>
Not sure what fascist capitalism is, but I'd probably be against it if it is
fascist.  I'd certainly forswear it if it is fascist.  Opposing IP law
enforcement strikes me as a very obscure sort of political view.  My
original worry was that the P2P Foundation would render itself obscure and
incompatible with most conventional thinkers if it took that position.  I
still feel that way.




> --
> Kevin Carson
> Center for a Stateless Society http://c4ss.org
> Mutualist Blog:  Free Market Anti-Capitalism
> http://mutualist.blogspot.com
> Studies in Mutualist Political Economy
> http://www.mutualist.org/id47.html
> Organization Theory:  A Libertarian Perspective
> http://mutualist.blogspot.com/2005/12/studies-in-anarchist-theory-of.html
>
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-- 
Ryan Lanham
rlanham1963 at gmail.com
Facebook: Ryan_Lanham
P.O. Box 633
Grand Cayman, KY1-1303
Cayman Islands
(345) 916-1712
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