[p2p-research] Repurposing Profit for User Freedom

[Michel Bauwens]

Hi Ryan,

I don't really see how a small tax that is distributed would create such
distortions?

Also, my view of coercion extends not just to states, but also to corporate
players.

Finally, I can't remember the stats exactly, but artists and musicians
profiting from IP is in the range of 0.ox percent, so realy it's not really
working for the overall majority of them It's currently mostly a winner take
all, and the biggest part is scooped away by the intermediaries. I think we
can retain copyright as a free choice, but need to change and reform it so
it can benefit the artists. In the system I propose, the proceeds would go
directly to the artists, and not to the corporate intermediairies (who could
still get paid for their services).

The U.S. has many great features, I have no problem in accepting that at
all, however, I think it's democracy is very sick, and significantly more
captured by private interests, than most European countries (there are of
course exceptions, like Italy), but of course, europe has its own problems
and pathologies,

Michel

On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 12:43 AM, Ryan Lanham <rlanham1963 at gmail.com> wrote:

>  On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 1:00 AM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>  On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 11:13 PM, Ryan Lanham <rlanham1963 at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>>  On 2/5/10, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> but I am never arguing for that, so I find it strange that you always
>>>> bring that up ...
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Excellent.  Then we can agree coercive state socialism (as in Cuba, China
>>> or Venezeula) is not something either of us support.  And that people have
>>> the right to property both real and intellectual and the right to protect
>>> that property through mechanisms of the state.
>>>
>> a few caveats, yes I do not support coercive state socialism, but I don't
>> think China falls in any way under that rubric anymore, and neither does
>> Venezuela, whose economy is neither socialist, nor its state particularly
>> centrally state socialism coercive ... one has to keep a sense of proportion
>> even as I'm sure there are many issues in Venezuela I'm sure ...
>>
>> and we should be open to any redeeming features (say Cuba's
>> extraordinarily agrarian revival, Venezuela's extraordinary success in
>> upping welfare levels for the majority of the population, China's economic
>> success, etc...)
>>
>> I'm sure you agree that even though the U.S. is now a banana republic, it
>> still has many redeeming features, <g>
>>
>> Michel
>>
>>
> Hi Michel,
>
> I think we agree coercion is wrong.  And that coercion means a state or
> organization forcing membership and participation.  I look forward to
> discussions of particular approaches in these societies.
>
> Whether enforcement of IP is a form of coercion is an interesting
> argument.  To me, it is a conflicting rights argument--always the most
> interesting legal arguments.  I have a clear view on the conflict which I
> often do not have.  I am happy to have some states reject the idea of
> enforcing IP -- the Cayman Islands does not recognize certain copyrights,
> and to let the chips fall where they may.  There are plenty of laws and
> treaties in these areas.  I think the system will evolve to fit what makes
> most sense.   I have heard repeatedly from informed persons in other
> channels including within our government at senior levels that enforcement
> is a necessity and compelling in both pragmatic and fundamental terms.  As a
> pragmatist, I don't hold fundamental views.
>
> Let me contrast IP with, say, ganja laws in the US.  I don't use ganja, but
> I think criminalizing it (and most other illegal drugs) is silly as most
> libertarians argue it is.  I'm not afraid to criticize standing laws or even
> to ignore them.  This isn't about some sort of legal compliance
> issue...though I do believe strongly in rule of law and in general
> compliance.  In that I suppose I differ markedly from anarchists, but I have
> always found anarchism worthy of moral and intellectual rejection. I still
> do.  As I've said, I find it internally consistent, I simply disagree with
> it fundamentally as I understand it and have read it from its well-known
> theorists.  I find libertarianism much more compelling, but I don't find
> libertarianism internally coherent.
>
> IP is very different for me.  Yes it protects some multinational
> corporations, but my view is that it is better for small artists (in all
> fields) than any other system.  I have grave doubts about your tax idea...it
> creates terrible distortions.  I think corporations need controls, but I
> think the basic idea of corporations and their advocacy is quite sound and
> very desirable...as both for profit and nonprofit entities.  As I continue
> to read them, I would say my own ideas are quite close to Larry Lessig's.
> Just to state a position as clearly and openly as possible.
>
> With regard to the US, it is a great country and my country.  It has many
> problems.  I am still at home with it, proud of it, and willing to accept
> and defend it, bananas and all.
>
> R.
>
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