[p2p-research] Fwd: [P2P-URBANISM WA] Fwd: "We need more megalopolises"

Sun Dec 26 23:34:48 CET 2010

- Goldner on the 'forgetting' of the cosmobiological tradition:

“The Foucaultian and Frankfurt School critics of the Enlightenment live off
the impoverishment of the left by its extended romance with a one-sided
appropriation of the Enlightenment, by the left's century-long confusion of
the completion of the bourgeois revolution by state civil servants with
socialism, and by the worldwide crackup of that project. The
pre-Enlightenment, Renaissance-Reformation cosmobiology which passed through
German idealism into Marx's species-being means even less to them than it
does to figures such as Habermas. Yet the usual critique of them is
undermined by the tacit agreement across the board that "nature is boring",
i.e. the realm of mechanism, as Hegel, articulating the ultimate state civil
servant view, cut off from practice in nature, said. Both sides of this
debate still inhabit the separation of culture and nature, Geist and Natur,
which came into existence through the Enlightenment's deflation of
cosmobiology. It is the rehabilitation, in suitably contemporary form, of
the outlook of Paracelsus and Kepler, not of Voltaire and Newton, which the
left requires today for a (necessarily simultaneous) regeneration of nature,
culture and society, out of Blake's fallen world of Urizen and what he
called "single vision and Newton's sleep". (
http://home.earthlink.net/~lrgoldner/renaissance.html<http://home.earthlink.net/%7Elrgoldner/renaissance.html>)

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Michael Mehaffy <michael.mehaffy at gmail.com>
Date: Mon, Dec 27, 2010 at 5:14 AM
Subject: Re: [P2P-URBANISM WA] Fwd: [p2p-research] "We need more
megalopolises"
To: p2p-urbanism-world-atlas at googlegroups.com

Dear Stefano,

And I think what Goodwin is arguing in this chapter, and what Goethe argued
before him (and Chris Alexander would also say, and Leonardo and many others
before him) is that science needs to learn to accommodate this qualitative
realm, and learn to understand it - not quantitatively, but qualitatively.
 This requires new methods and ways of thinking for science -- not outside
of a (limited) science, but within an expanded one.

Best, m

On Sun, Dec 26, 2010 at 10:55 PM, Stefano Serafini <
stefanonikolaevic at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Michael,
>
> thank you. Goodwin is of course a point of reference for this trend in
> Biology. I would add that at the very same time while modern science was
> born, another discipline of control got to life: Aesthetics. And this is not
> a case.
>
> Science as control deals with primary qualities - the ones related to the
> core of the new burgeois society: measure, private ownership, trade.
> Secondary qualities must be controlled by another discipline, as nothing
> must escape control: a discipline that reduces all human experiences to a
> common category, like science reduces everything to mathematical measure.
>
> Since XVII century, we can "enjoy"  - let's say - a Balinese dance, without
> knowing absolutely nothing about Balinese culture, religion, and tradition:
> we can just reduce it to "beauty", and consume it. Liturgy as such
> disappears. Myth disappears. Symbol, tragedy, religion, even politics - a
> whole world vanishes, by getting trapped in two great powerfull categories,
> tamed for the totalitarian horizon of European burgeois values: Utility and
> Beauty. You know what has happened since then on to the cities, and
> Architecture in general.
>
> Best,
>
> Stefano Serafini
>
>
>
>
>
> 2010/12/26 Michael Mehaffy <michael.mehaffy at gmail.com>
>
>> Dear Stefano and all,
>>
>> There is a brilliant discussion of these issues in Brian Goodwin's fine
>> book *How the Leopard Changed Its Spots*.  In the last chapter, called "A
>> Science of Qualities," he notes that Galileo first distinguished between
>> quantity and quality when he noted the "primary qualities" that could be
>> measured - mass, position and velocity - and secondary qualities, which
>> could not (then) be measured - shape, color and texture.  This marked a
>> decisive turn to things that could be measured and correlated - a great
>> advance in science but also a loss of consideration of the qualitative.
>>  (And of course Newton, Descartes and others accelerated this emphasis.)
>>
>> Not long afterward, Kant made a critical distinction between mechanisms
>> and organisms, in which the parts of mechanisms are assembled independently
>> of one another and brought together to complete a function, while the parts
>> of organisms *actually create* each other.  As he put it, the parts exist
>> for and by means of one another.  they are mutually co-adapted.
>>
>> And the form that results comes about not as a simple mechanical process,
>> but the under the dynamics of a field.  Such fields are very well understood
>> and accepted as a reality in physics, and so, he argues, fields seem to be
>> just as valid and important in biology.  There is a field of morphospace
>> that is every bit as tangible in what it produces as a magnetic field
>> produces alignments in the filings of iron even though we can otherwise see
>> no such field.  But in the same way,  the field of morphospace creates
>> characteristic forms in the realm of biology, which are explainable in no
>> other way.  As he notes, a kind of mechanical process by itself (what has
>> come to be called "Darwinism," though Darwin himself said no such thing) has
>> a great trouble explaining the variety of organisms.  If it;s just simple
>> adaptation and natural selection, then there ought to be one dominant
>> species per ecosystem, and that;s about it.  But this does not explain the
>> inter-dynamics of the process, and the way it plays out in, yes, a field of
>> morphospace.
>>
>> And as noted earlier, these fields have basins if attraction within them,
>> which represent the points to which a solution is attracted because of the
>> structural nature of the problem. - much as the iron filings aim at the
>> north or south poles of a magnetic field. The morphospace of biology is
>> vastly more complicated, but the analogy is useful as a way of understanding
>> the structural field relationships.
>>
>> This has a direct bearing on urbanism because the forms of buildings and
>> cities are also governed by similar field-like characteristics.  They emerge
>> as coherent, mutually adapted parts from a field with its own dynamics and
>> points of structural convergence and attraction.  You can see this mutual
>> adaptive, emergent quality in a medieval Italian village (as I just did
>> today, as a matter of fact).
>>
>> And when we treat these buildings and cities in the mechanical sense that
>> Kant described, we lose their adaptive coherence, their structural
>> integrity, and ultimately, their very quality of "sustainability" that we
>> think we are after.  Then we are in a great deal of trouble.... As indeed we
>> are!
>>
>> Best, m
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Dec 26, 2010 at 7:33 PM, Stefano Serafini <
>> stefanonikolaevic at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Yodann, dear Emanuele,
>>>
>>> looking back at this conversation I see I probably gave the impression of
>>> wanting return to "the old good world", and that's not the case. As I'm not
>>> an Architect I'm really unable to front the context sometimes, sorry for it
>>> (yet, that's worst in Biology: it's hard to be confused not with
>>> creationists if you criticizes Darwin). But Michael explained better than me
>>> my intention (thank's Michael).
>>>
>>> Stefano
>>>
>>> 2010/12/26 Michael Mehaffy <michael.mehaffy at gmail.com>
>>>
>>> Hi Yodan,
>>>>
>>>> Just to add, and to support Stefano's point I hope, there is always a
>>>> question of resilience, and at what points.  The Internet is very resilient
>>>> to attacks by bombs taking out key nodes - that's really precisely why it
>>>> was developed in that architecture.  But it's not resilient when it comes to
>>>> certain viruses or service attacks.  (This is something that keeps some
>>>> defense analysts up at night - cyber-terrorism etc.)
>>>>
>>>> In the case of cars, we can have a resilient street network, but a
>>>> non-resilient dependence on foreign oil (which was a major contributor to
>>>> the mortgage defaults and the worldwide financial crisis - more
>>>> non-resilient systems...)
>>>>
>>>> And in the case of the travel, it is extraordinary that one volcano in
>>>> Iceland managed, because of a non-resilient dependence on air travel, to
>>>> essentially cripple the European economy for about a week.  Air travel is a
>>>> particularly non-resilient form of travel, dependent as it is on lots of
>>>> critical systems working well (including snow-clearing equipment.)
>>>>
>>>> I was stuck at Chris Alexander's last weekend, unable to fly out of
>>>> Gatwick.  (Don't get me wrong, I was glad to spend more time with him!  But
>>>> life must go on...)  Luckily I was able to take the train to Portsmouth, the
>>>> ferry to Le Havre, and the train back to Trento.  That is a much more
>>>> resilient and robust form of transportation, which needs to be there as a
>>>> redundant system.  But as you know, in the US they are cutting back train
>>>> lines, and I worry about the effect of Ryanair and Easyjet, with their
>>>> subsidized routes, on the viability of other complementary (and more benign)
>>>> modes of travel.
>>>>
>>>> All of which is to say, I do agree that we have a worrisome state of
>>>> non-resilience in many systems today.  No, we can;t go back p but we can
>>>> learn from the resilience that we had in the past )as well as, in some
>>>> cases, the non-resilience.)
>>>>
>>>> Best, m
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Dec 26, 2010 at 3:07 PM, Yodan Rofe <yrofe at bgu.ac.il> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> Actually Nikos posted the article in this conversation several e-mails
>>>>> ago.
>>>>>
>>>>> Stefano, despite appearances - cities are much more resilient than
>>>>> other forms of human organization - which is one of the ideas that West
>>>>> talks about in the interview, and the internet has proven itself very
>>>>> resilient in being the first way for news to break out in disaster areas.
>>>>> That does not mean that things cannot get improved, even very much so, or
>>>>> that bigger is always better - as it is often not the case (as West shows in
>>>>> the case of corporations) - but solution will not be found in going back to
>>>>> simpler forms of organization.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nor should we think of things as an either/or zero sum game. There
>>>>> could and should be a place for both fast pace interconnected places, and
>>>>> for slow isolated ones and we may need them at different times, different
>>>>> age, and for different persons. Like in many thiings the question is the
>>>>> balance between the two.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yodan
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Dec 26, 2010 at 08:41, Stefano Serafini <
>>>>> stefanonikolaevic at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Fantastic! I count this also as a St. Stephanos' gift, thank's a lot!
>>>>>> ;-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Stefano Serafini
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2010/12/26 Romulo Krafta <krafta at ufrgs.br>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  merry Xmas
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> *From:* Stefano Serafini <stefanonikolaevic at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> *To:* p2p-urbanism-world-atlas at googlegroups.com
>>>>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, December 26, 2010 10:26 AM
>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [P2P-URBANISM WA] Fwd: [p2p-research] "We need more
>>>>>>> megalopolises"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dear All,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Geoffrey West is one of the most quoted Authors in systems biology. A
>>>>>>> harsh polemics is stil echoing about a work of him and colleagues,
>>>>>>> demonstrating a universal mathematical constraint in biological distribution
>>>>>>> systems design. I'm so happy to be not the only one jumping from
>>>>>>> post-darwinian biology to urbanism (si parva licet)!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Article is worth of attention. If somebody could pick it up from
>>>>>>> Nature's site... please think to your p2p urbanism friends and make them a
>>>>>>> Christmas gift!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would only add that without saying about oil end and false claims
>>>>>>> for "sustainability", we have to consider main collateral effects of big
>>>>>>> complexes: and one of them is often cumbersome, that is frailty.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I passed 4 hours in the higway while trying to return back home, only
>>>>>>> 30 km south Rome, last Friday. I've been lucky, because Italy has been
>>>>>>> dramatically blocked, flooded and frozen that day, and many people passed
>>>>>>> the whole night on the street, without help, food, heating. Main UK,
>>>>>>> Germany, and France airports and train systems stopped working for 24 hours.
>>>>>>> It was just snow, yet journalists and politics spoke about "exceptional
>>>>>>> snowing".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This summer I've suffered breathing carbon monoxyde and smoke for 10
>>>>>>> nights and days, travelling through a very hot Russia, devasted by
>>>>>>> uncontrollable fires. Firemen, army, special forces, civil organizations,
>>>>>>> specialists coming from abroad, and common people worked together under the
>>>>>>> direct supervision of Vladimir Putin to stop the 6000 fires burning and
>>>>>>> poisoning a Continent, devouring woods, towns, militar centers... but the
>>>>>>> Hell couldn't be stopped.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A few months before, the eruption of a single volcano sealed off
>>>>>>> Europe's sky, provoking an economic loss of billions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> IMHO these are symptoms. Our civilization is at risk of getting
>>>>>>> overwhelmed by its own cumbersome, getting more and more frail and
>>>>>>> breakable. I even think how I did write an article 20 years ago, without
>>>>>>> nothing but paper, a pen, and some visits to libraries. Now I get rid with
>>>>>>> Internet (Google, Wkipedia, mailing lists like this, quick questions and
>>>>>>> answers between me and several "friends" and collegaues all over the
>>>>>>> world...), but quality only LOOKS to be better, while I'm more dependent by
>>>>>>> very complicated informatics and electricity and communication systems; and
>>>>>>> waste more time and energy, receiving back less pleasure.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Stefano Serafini
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2010/12/23 Jan Wiklund <jan.wiklund at srf.nu>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  Yes, and I see it in Stockholm – a city which has dubbed itself
>>>>>>>> “environmental capital”, and in the same time projecting a new net of
>>>>>>>> highways and huge swathes of sprawl over the remaining countryside nearby.
>>>>>>>> Almost all expertise debunk them however, it’s not like what Miguel tells
>>>>>>>> us. But since politicians of all colours seem to agree about their own
>>>>>>>> self-aggrandizement, the combined expertise and environmental movement count
>>>>>>>> for nothing. “*I* don’t think so”, as the minister of environment
>>>>>>>> answered a storm of critique over his cooked books recently. Other
>>>>>>>> politicians perhaps don’t state is as bluntly, but they don’t oppose either.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jan
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  ------------------------------
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *Från:* p2p-urbanism-world-atlas at googlegroups.com [mailto:
>>>>>>>> p2p-urbanism-world-atlas at googlegroups.com] *För *Michael Mehaffy
>>>>>>>> *Skickat:* den 22 december 2010 22:36
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *Till:* p2p-urbanism-world-atlas at googlegroups.com
>>>>>>>> *Ämne:* Re: [P2P-URBANISM WA] Fwd: [p2p-research] "We need more
>>>>>>>> megalopolises"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dear Miguel, Jan and others,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I see the same kind of hype in Portland, my home town, which touts
>>>>>>>> itself as being sustainable.  It has made much progress and there are things
>>>>>>>> worth celebrating, but on the gauge of resource use, it is at about 6 or 7
>>>>>>>> planets (if everyone lived that way) versus 10 planets for the US as a
>>>>>>>> whole.    That is, it barely makes the standards of a mediocre European city
>>>>>>>> - which is itself a long way from sustainable.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I met Jaime Lerner at a conference, and I thought he had some clever
>>>>>>>> and useful ideas - but it speaks to the low standards involved, that
>>>>>>>> Curitiba, or Portland, are held up as models of perfection. what a long way
>>>>>>>> we have to go...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Best, m
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 8:02 PM, MIGUEL ALOYSIO SATTLER <
>>>>>>>> masattler at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Also that, but not ONLY politics, Jan,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you are an architect or urban planner (I am not!), you will
>>>>>>>> remember that
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "In July 2002, Lerner was elected president of International Union
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> Architects, for a three-year term. His main project at UIA is the
>>>>>>>> program Celebration of Cities, which invites all nations and
>>>>>>>> cultures
>>>>>>>> of the planet to propose solutions for their cities"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> and also in his Web page
>>>>>>>> http://www.ted.com/speakers/jaime_lerner.html
>>>>>>>>  you will find that
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "He spoke at important conferences such as the International Green
>>>>>>>> Forum, Osaka, Japan (1986); New York Academy of Sciences (1986);
>>>>>>>> UIA/AIA Conference “World Congress of Architects’ (Chicago, USA,
>>>>>>>> 1993), the 53rd Annual United Nations Conference (2000), and the
>>>>>>>> Clinton Global Initiative (2006), and was invited in 2006 to
>>>>>>>> participate in the exhibit “Leonardo da Vinci: Men Inventor, Genius
>>>>>>>> –
>>>>>>>> section Modern-Day Leonardos”, at the Science and Industry Museum of
>>>>>>>> Chicago, USA; and in the 8th Bienal Internacional de Arquitectura de
>>>>>>>> Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic. Keynote speaker at the TED –
>>>>>>>> Ideas
>>>>>>>> Worth Spreading in Monterrey, California in 2007, at the Ecocity
>>>>>>>> World
>>>>>>>> Summit in San Francisco, California and at the Urban Age Conference
>>>>>>>> Sao Paulo in 2008, and at the Mane Expo Madrid, Spain, in 2009.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In his speach
>>>>>>>> http://www.ted.com/talks/jaime_lerner_sings_of_the_city.html
>>>>>>>> he says that anyone can turn a city into a sustainable city in THREE
>>>>>>>> YEARS! Others, like Norman Foster (Masdar city) and ARUP (Dong
>>>>>>>> Tang),
>>>>>>>> are designing what they say are NEW Sustainable Cities.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For those who know Curitiba, and I know it for a long time, reckon
>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>> is an interesting city, but is FAAAAR from being sustainable,
>>>>>>>> including poverty, lack of quality water, importing its food from
>>>>>>>> long
>>>>>>>> distance.... But even so, it was elected recently the most
>>>>>>>> sustainable
>>>>>>>> city in Latin America, by far.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I also read original article of Bettencourt and West, Nikos has sent
>>>>>>>> us today. And, from that, you cannot say that the authors advocate
>>>>>>>> Megalopolises as being sustainable or even MORE sustainable.  They
>>>>>>>> show SOME advances, but also MANY unsolved problems, when you look
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> the whole set of sustainability dimensions in them ...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Miguel
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Prof. Miguel Aloysio Sattler, PhD
>>>>>>>> Depto. de Engenharia Civil/NORIE
>>>>>>>> UFRGS
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
>>>>>>>> "P2P-Urbanism World Atlas" group.
>>>>>>>> to register to the group
>>>>>>>> http://cityleft.blogspot.com/
>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to
>>>>>>>> p2p-urbanism-world-atlas at googlegroups.com
>>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at
>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/p2p-urbanism-world-atlas?hl=en
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Michael Mehaffy
>>>>>>>> 333 S. State Street, Suite V-440
>>>>>>>> Lake Oswego, OR 97034
>>>>>>>> www.tectics.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
>>>>>>>> "P2P-Urbanism World Atlas" group.
>>>>>>>> to register to the group
>>>>>>>> http://cityleft.blogspot.com/
>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to
>>>>>>>> p2p-urbanism-world-atlas at googlegroups.com
>>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>  You received this message because you are subscribed to the
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>>>>>>>> to register to the group
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  --
>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
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>>>>>>> to register to the group
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  --
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  --
>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
>>>>>> "P2P-Urbanism World Atlas" group.
>>>>>> to register to the group
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>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Dr. Yodan Rofe` - Senior Lecturer
>>>>> Desert Architecture and Urban Planning - J. Blaustein Institutes for
>>>>> Desert Research
>>>>> Ben-Gurion University of the Negev, Sde Boqer Campus, Israel 84990
>>>>> Tel. 972-8-6596884  Fax. 972-8-6596881
>>>>> http://www.bgu.ac.il/CDAUP/yodan-rofe.html
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
>>>>> "P2P-Urbanism World Atlas" group.
>>>>> to register to the group
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>>>>> To post to this group, send email to
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>>>>> For more options, visit this group at
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Michael Mehaffy
>>>> 333 S. State Street, Suite V-440
>>>> Lake Oswego, OR 97034
>>>> www.tectics.com
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
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>>>>
>>>
>>>  --
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Michael Mehaffy
>> 333 S. State Street, Suite V-440
>> Lake Oswego, OR 97034
>> www.tectics.com
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
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>
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-- 
Michael Mehaffy
333 S. State Street, Suite V-440
Lake Oswego, OR 97034
www.tectics.com

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