[p2p-research] p2p credit card
Michel Bauwens
michelsub2004 at gmail.com
Wed Dec 22 04:03:49 CET 2010
Thanks Dante, and Paolo, for the added details about that project,
Paolo, feel free to send a text which can be published on our Ning blog
about this,
Michel
On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 6:33 AM, Dante-Gabryell Monson <
dante.monson at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Paolo,
> thanks for your reply.
>
> I am adding Michel <http://p2pfoundation.net/Bio> in cc
>
> As for the p2p research list, it is related to researchers ( but I
> personally also believe also some artists, activists, ... ) interested in
>
> http://p2pfoundation.net ; http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>
> Greetings
> Dante
> http://hitchwiki.org/en/Dante
>
> On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 10:46 PM, Paolo Cirio <info at paolocirio.net> wrote:
>
>> many thanks!
>> i didn't know about the list, i'm going to subscribe to it.
>> i hope that Douglas will change his opinion about the project.
>> cheers
>> paolo
>>
>> On 21 Dec 2010, at 22:33, Dante-Gabryell Monson wrote:
>>
>> Hi Paolo,
>>
>> I fwd your reply to the p2p list, where some people where also asking
>> questions regarding your project.
>>
>> I hope its ok with you.
>>
>> You ll find them on
>>
>>
>> http://listcultures.org/pipermail/p2presearch_listcultures.org/2010-December/thread.html
>>
>> [p2p-research] p2p credit card <http://listcultures.org/pipermail/p2presearch_listcultures.org/2010-December/011568.html>
>> *Michel Bauwens*
>>
>> - [p2p-research] p2p credit card <http://listcultures.org/pipermail/p2presearch_listcultures.org/2010-December/011569.html>
>> *Douglas Rushkoff*
>> - [p2p-research] p2p credit card <http://listcultures.org/pipermail/p2presearch_listcultures.org/2010-December/011571.html>
>> *Michel Bauwens*
>> - [p2p-research] p2p credit card <http://listcultures.org/pipermail/p2presearch_listcultures.org/2010-December/011572.html>
>> *Maja van der Velden*
>> - [p2p-research] p2p credit card <http://listcultures.org/pipermail/p2presearch_listcultures.org/2010-December/011578.html>
>> *Roberto Verzola*
>> - [p2p-research] p2p credit card <http://listcultures.org/pipermail/p2presearch_listcultures.org/2010-December/011579.html>
>> *Dante-Gabryell Monson*
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 6:45 PM, Paolo Cirio <info at paolocirio.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Many thanks for the feedback.
>>>
>>> It's not a project about fiat currencies, although issuing money with
>>> new currencies is actually a good way to rescue local economies as
>>> many theorists and cases history demonstrated. There are also many art
>>> projects based on alternative currencies.
>>>
>>> The P2P Gift Finance focuses on the creation of credit, which means
>>> money (by any currency, here the pounds are symbolic, i'll eventually
>>> start a branch in the US), and how to use present evil monopolistic
>>> infrastructures (like the credit cards circuits) and financial
>>> instruments (like the Fractional Reserve Banking) in order to give
>>> power to create money back to the people. Banks are allowed to create
>>> money that they don't have just by generating numbers through
>>> software, as they are allowed to erase funds or move them away, just
>>> by their mouses. So i think that people should have the same right.
>>> Moreover the project proposes to abolish the "Interest rates" on any
>>> kind of loans, as islamic banks already do.
>>>
>>> I agree on the fact that the cards are indexed in a centralized
>>> database, it's a technical limitation that must be solved, maybe by
>>> the same technique for indexing torrent files.
>>>
>>> I hope that it's clear that i'm an artist, so this project should give
>>> a vision, not a final solution. Although it's not so pointless, and
>>> actually it could work well, at the moment, nothing is more absurd
>>> than the present economic situation. I advice to read and watch some
>>> material here:
>>> http://www.p2pgiftcredit.com/infoshop.php
>>>
>>> Paolo.
>>>
>>> On 21 Dec 2010, at 17:31, Dante-Gabryell Monson wrote:
>>>
>>> >If it does not use conventional money, but its own mutual credit
>>> >units / alternative currency,
>>> >
>>> >then this looks more like a "Mutual Credit" / Exchange Network
>>> >approach, for exchanges between its users.
>>> >
>>> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_credit
>>> >
>>> >or perhaps some other type of Alternative Currency architecture
>>> >variant :
>>> >
>>> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_currency
>>> >
>>> >The project may be a honorable and sincere intention to develop
>>> >financial alternatives.
>>> >
>>> >In that case, what troubles me is more that it seems to be a
>>> >centralized ( database ? ) approach - but perhaps I am mistaken ?
>>> >
>>> >Also, on their site, having an image with "Visa" on the card, and
>>> >not stating every time it is used that the "pounds" ( or the use of
>>> >the pound sign ) are actually not central bank pounds, can make it
>>> >somewhat confusing too,
>>> >
>>> >although it may be possible that they use a banking transfer company
>>> >such as Visa to make their own unit transfers when purchasing in
>>> >shops who have access to Visa/Mastercard readers.
>>> >
>>> >They explain their alternative monetary architecture on :
>>> >
>>> >http://p2pgiftcredit.com/about.php
>>> >
>>> >There are many different types of monetary architectures that can be
>>> >imagined and implemented, some fiat, others guaranteed by
>>> >production, some of them centralized, others more decentralized, etc
>>> >
>>> >Often the issue is one of reaching a sufficiently large pool /
>>> >critical mass of users who trust each other and want to do exchanges
>>> >while using the currency as tool.
>>> >
>>> >Basically, I presume its about creating social networks between
>>> >people that trust each other sufficiently as to enable exchanges.
>>> >
>>> >Personally, I would also need to have access to more details
>>> >concerning the currency, its members, etc before joining it.
>>> >
>>> >I might as well for now use other distributed and open source
>>> >clearing tools,
>>> >such as
>>> >http://ripplepay.com/ ;
>>> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ripple_monetary_system ( software :
>>> > http://sourceforge.net/projects/ripple/ )
>>> >and/or use any type of units of my own choosing, including for example
>>> >http://www.bitcoin.org/
>>> >
>>> >By the way, an example of an existing and rather large economic
>>> >circle - the "WIR", in Switzerland :
>>> >
>>> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WIR_Bank
>>> >
>>> >Just in case some of us are not accustomed to alternative currencies
>>> >and may want to have an introduction,
>>> >I suggest reading "The Future of Money" by Bernard Lietaer :
>>> >
>>> >http://www.transaction.net/money/book/index.html
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 8:52 AM, Paolo Cirio <info at paolocirio.net>
>>> >wrote:
>>> >
>>> >Press Release, 20 December 2010. London.
>>> >
>>> >P2P Gift Credit Cards - Gift Finance.
>>> >http://P2PGiftCredit.com
>>> >
>>> >This project proposes an alternative economy based on Peer-to-Peer
>>> >architecture for a more equal sharing of wealth in society. It offers
>>> >an innovative participative system using counterfeit virtual money.
>>> >
>>> >Promotional AD:
>>> >Go on http://P2PGiftCredit.com and get your P2P Gift Credit Card
>>> >instantly, just by typing your email or cell phone number. When you
>>> >activate the card you get your first ?100 of gift credit! Other
>>> >rewards come every time you introduce a new friend!
>>> >
>>> >About the P2P Gift Credit Cards:
>>> >By issuing a visionary type of credit card, the project introduces the
>>> >P2P Gift Finance system based on Peer-to-Peer free credit shared
>>> >across digital networks. The P2P Gift Finance is a democratic creation
>>> >of money directly regulated by ordinary people in order to
>>> >redistribute wealth in society. Power to create virtual money with a
>>> >multiplier effect should be restored to the people, and regulated by
>>> >democratic participation. It is recognised that the perpetual creation
>>> >of money is necessary, however, since there is a private monopoly on
>>> >the monetary system, it is proven to be unfair and is unlikely to ever
>>> >change without intervention. Indeed many theorists have pointed out
>>> >that allowing banks to create money is fundamentally unjust, unethical
>>> >and immoral.
>>> >Find out more about it:
>>> >http://P2PGiftCredit.com/about.php
>>> >
>>> >More details:
>>> >The website P2PGiftCredit.com allows people to generate unique virtual
>>> >card numbers to send to others via digital devices and platforms. In
>>> >order to activate and use the P2P Gift Credit Cards users must
>>> >generate new virtual credit card numbers for friends. Rules like this
>>> >underline the idea of 'Sharing' a concept which defines the basis of
>>> >P2P Gift Finance and enables a viral spread of free credit among
>>> >people, generating a real alternative virtual credit that anyone can
>>> >own. This approach also simulates the distribution of free credit by
>>> >people as a form of "Basic Income", which may help to stimulate the
>>> >entire economy.
>>> >Find out more how it works:
>>> >http://P2PGiftCredit.com/how.php
>>> >
>>> >A limited edition of physical plastic P2P Gift Credit Cards are
>>> >available by request on the P2PGiftCredit.com, and they will also be
>>> >distributed through public actions in London during the month of
>>> >January 2011.
>>> >You can see a preview of the printed card and its holder in this
>>> >picture:
>>> >http://P2PGiftCredit.com/press/P2PCC_carrier_HD.jpg
>>> >
>>> >Purpose of the project:
>>> >- Researching alternative virtual currencies, peer-to-peer lending
>>> >platforms and electronic payments as a positive step in reshaping the
>>> >future of sustainable finance in the contemporary digital networked
>>> >scenario.
>>> >- Underlining the consequences of private speculative lending
>>> >institutions and explaining how they often determine economic crises
>>> >due to the deregulated creation of credit.
>>> >- Calling people to sign petitions to shut down tax havens, and to
>>> >investigate the bailout money that taxpayers recently paid to major
>>> >banks by supporting ongoing campaigns on this issue.
>>> >- Bringing "Basic Income" (as a form of universal, guaranteed, minimum
>>> >income) to public attention and the inequities of current patterns of
>>> >the redistribution of wealth into question.
>>> >- Targeting social classes vulnerable to the deceptive marketing of
>>> >the credit card industry (such as university students, artists, the
>>> >unemployed and people with low incomes) in order to highlight the
>>> >inherent dangers.
>>> >- Increasing awareness about global credit and debit owned by people
>>> >and banks during the recent so-called global recession, as well as
>>> >issues related to the creation of money.
>>> >
>>> >If you would like to have more information about the recent so-called
>>> >"economic recession", the victims of global fraud, the artificial
>>> >scarcity of money, or, if you would like to know more about the credit
>>> >card industries, their criminal interest rates (which cause depression
>>> >and suicides), and more besides, you should have a look at the
>>> >Infoshop section which is a real treasure trove of information:
>>> >http://P2PGiftCredit.com/infoshop.php
>>> >
>>> >A project by Paolo Cirio.
>>> >http://www.paolocirio.net
>>> >(This project is commissioned by an anonymous arts organisation in the
>>> >UK)
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >ps:
>>> >At the end of January Paolo is going to release an explosive-top-
>>> >secret project! So stay tuned! It is not to be missed
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> ># distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission
>>> ># <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
>>> ># collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
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>>> ># archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime at kein.org
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission
>>> # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
>>> # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
>>> # more info: http://mail.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l
>>> # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime at kein.org
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
--
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