[p2p-research] p2p credit card

[Dante-Gabryell Monson]

regarding former post on this list

this reply from Cirio ( below )

excerpt from Cirio :
*
*
*"I hope that it's clear that i'm an artist, so this project should give
a vision, not a final solution."*

it will show up on this nettime archive

http://www.nettime.org/Lists-Archives/nettime-l-1012/threads.html

http://twitter.com/#!/paolocirio

<http://www.nettime.org/Lists-Archives/nettime-l-1012/threads.html>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Paolo Cirio <info at paolocirio.net>
Date: Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: <nettime> P2P Gift Credit Cards - Gift Finance. Press Release.
To: nettime-l at kein.org


Many thanks for the feedback.

It's not a project about fiat currencies, although issuing money with
new currencies is actually a good way to rescue local economies as
many theorists and cases history demonstrated. There are also many art
projects based on alternative currencies.

The P2P Gift Finance focuses on the creation of credit, which means
money (by any currency, here the pounds are symbolic, i'll eventually
start a branch in the US), and how to use present evil monopolistic
infrastructures (like the credit cards circuits) and financial
instruments (like the Fractional Reserve Banking) in order to give
power to create money back to the people. Banks are allowed to create
money that they don't have just by generating numbers through
software, as they are allowed to erase funds or move them away, just
by their mouses. So i think that people should have the same right.
Moreover the project proposes to abolish the "Interest rates" on any
kind of loans, as islamic banks already do.

I agree on the fact that the cards are indexed in a centralized
database, it's a technical limitation that must be solved, maybe by
the same technique for indexing torrent files.

I hope that it's clear that i'm an artist, so this project should give
a vision, not a final solution. Although it's not so pointless, and
actually it could work well, at the moment, nothing is more absurd
than the present economic situation. I advice to read and watch some
material here:
http://www.p2pgiftcredit.com/infoshop.php

Paolo.

On 21 Dec 2010, at 17:31, Dante-Gabryell Monson wrote:

>If it does not use conventional money, but its own mutual credit
>units / alternative currency,
>
>then this looks more like a "Mutual Credit" / Exchange Network
>approach, for exchanges between its users.
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_credit
>
>or perhaps some other type of Alternative Currency architecture
>variant :
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_currency
>
>The project may be a honorable and sincere intention to develop
>financial alternatives.
>
>In that case, what troubles me is more that it seems to be a
>centralized ( database ? ) approach - but perhaps I am mistaken ?
>
>Also, on their site, having an image with "Visa" on the card, and
>not stating every time it is used that the "pounds" ( or the use of
>the pound sign ) are actually not central bank pounds, can make it
>somewhat confusing too,
>
>although it may be possible that they use a banking transfer company
>such as Visa to make their own unit transfers when purchasing in
>shops who have access to Visa/Mastercard readers.
>
>They explain their alternative monetary architecture on :
>
>http://p2pgiftcredit.com/about.php
>
>There are many different types of monetary architectures that can be
>imagined and implemented, some fiat, others guaranteed by
>production, some of them centralized, others more decentralized, etc
>
>Often the issue is one of reaching a sufficiently large pool /
>critical mass of users who trust each other and want to do exchanges
>while using the currency as tool.
>
>Basically, I presume its about creating social networks between
>people that trust each other sufficiently as to enable exchanges.
>
>Personally, I would also need to have access to more details
>concerning the currency, its members, etc before joining it.
>
>I might as well for now use other distributed and open source
>clearing tools,
>such as
>http://ripplepay.com/  ;
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ripple_monetary_system ( software :
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/ripple/ )
>and/or use any type of units of my own choosing, including for example
>http://www.bitcoin.org/
>
>By the way, an example of an existing and rather large economic
>circle - the "WIR", in Switzerland :
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WIR_Bank
>
>Just in case some of us are not accustomed to alternative currencies
>and may want to have an introduction,
>I suggest reading "The Future of Money" by Bernard Lietaer :
>
>http://www.transaction.net/money/book/index.html
>
>
>
>On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 8:52 AM, Paolo Cirio <info at paolocirio.net>
>wrote:
>
>Press Release, 20 December 2010. London.
>
>P2P Gift Credit Cards - Gift Finance.
>http://P2PGiftCredit.com
>
>This project proposes an alternative economy based on Peer-to-Peer
>architecture for a more equal sharing of wealth in society. It offers
>an innovative participative system using counterfeit virtual money.
>
>Promotional AD:
>Go on http://P2PGiftCredit.com and get your P2P Gift Credit Card
>instantly, just by typing your email or cell phone number. When you
>activate the card you get your first ?100 of gift credit! Other
>rewards come every time you introduce a new friend!
>
>About the P2P Gift Credit Cards:
>By issuing a visionary type of credit card, the project introduces the
>P2P Gift Finance system based on Peer-to-Peer free credit shared
>across digital networks. The P2P Gift Finance is a democratic creation
>of money directly regulated by ordinary people in order to
>redistribute wealth in society. Power to create virtual money with a
>multiplier effect should be restored to the people, and regulated by
>democratic participation. It is recognised that the perpetual creation
>of money is necessary, however, since there is a private monopoly on
>the monetary system, it is proven to be unfair and is unlikely to ever
>change without intervention. Indeed many theorists have pointed out
>that allowing banks to create money is fundamentally unjust, unethical
>and immoral.
>Find out more about it:
>http://P2PGiftCredit.com/about.php
>
>More details:
>The website P2PGiftCredit.com allows people to generate unique virtual
>card numbers to send to others via digital devices and platforms. In
>order to activate and use the P2P Gift Credit Cards users must
>generate new virtual credit card numbers for friends. Rules like this
>underline the idea of 'Sharing' a concept which defines the basis of
>P2P Gift Finance and enables a viral spread of free credit among
>people, generating a real alternative virtual credit that anyone can
>own. This approach also simulates the distribution of free credit by
>people as a form of "Basic Income", which may help to stimulate the
>entire economy.
>Find out more how it works:
>http://P2PGiftCredit.com/how.php
>
>A limited edition of physical plastic P2P Gift Credit Cards are
>available by request on the P2PGiftCredit.com, and they will also be
>distributed through public actions in London during the month of
>January 2011.
>You can see a preview of the printed card and its holder in this
>picture:
>http://P2PGiftCredit.com/press/P2PCC_carrier_HD.jpg
>
>Purpose of the project:
>- Researching alternative virtual currencies, peer-to-peer lending
>platforms and electronic payments as a positive step in reshaping the
>future of sustainable finance in the contemporary digital networked
>scenario.
>- Underlining the consequences of private speculative lending
>institutions and explaining how they often determine economic crises
>due to the deregulated creation of credit.
>- Calling people to sign petitions to shut down tax havens, and to
>investigate the bailout money that taxpayers recently paid to major
>banks by supporting ongoing campaigns on this issue.
>- Bringing "Basic Income" (as a form of universal, guaranteed, minimum
>income) to public attention and the inequities of current patterns of
>the redistribution of wealth into question.
>- Targeting social classes vulnerable to the deceptive marketing of
>the credit card industry (such as university students, artists, the
>unemployed and people with low incomes) in order to highlight the
>inherent dangers.
>- Increasing awareness about global credit and debit owned by people
>and banks during the recent so-called global recession, as well as
>issues related to the creation of money.
>
>If you would like to have more information about the recent so-called
>"economic recession", the victims of global fraud, the artificial
>scarcity of money, or, if you would like to know more about the credit
>card industries, their criminal interest rates (which cause depression
>and suicides), and more besides, you should have a look at the
>Infoshop section which is a real treasure trove of information:
>http://P2PGiftCredit.com/infoshop.php
>
>A project by Paolo Cirio.
>http://www.paolocirio.net
>(This project is commissioned by an anonymous arts organisation in the
>UK)
>
>
>ps:
>At the end of January Paolo is going to release an explosive-top-
>secret project! So stay tuned! It is not to be missed
>
>
>
>
>
>
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