[p2p-research] commentary to nicholas carr piece

[Michel Bauwens]

Dear Neal,

As you perhaps know, I occasionally, if not regularly, promote shareable
items through facebook/twitter and sometimes the blog (
http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/?s=shareable), and your material is also
prominently featured in our wiki section at
http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:Sharing,

how do you think we could do more?

perhaps you could discuss with James Burke on how to have a shareable feed
appear somewhere on our blog? and perhaps do this in a mutual way? just an
additional idea



the carr article is online:
http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/netarchical-ideologies-and-the-corporatization-and-marketisation-of-free-collaboration/2010/12/02

On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 12:38 AM, Neal Gorenflo <neal at shareable.net> wrote:

> Michel, intelligent and big hearted response that subsumes Carr's
> argument in constructive orientation and context.
>
> Your inquiry here is timely.  While Shareable is more oriented toward
> lifestyle content, we do tackle big ideas occasionally.  We've been
> discussing how to do this in a more systematic and impactful way.  I
> believe that doing this as a community is more effective.  We can
> share ideas and then share our web traffic.  This way we get better
> ideas and a bigger audience for them.
>
> One of my big goals at ICC was to connect the commons media people to
> catalyze some light collaboration around idea and traffic sharing.  I
> made some progress, this is progress, and I'll be looking for more.
>
> One proven and nearly zero cost method to build an audience online is
> to first build a cadre of allies that consistently share traffic (peer
> produce our audience).  This is one way that we can bring our ideas to
> the center of the global dialog about the future.
>
> OK, so let me know when your response is up so I can share it ;)
> Thanks for your good works!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Neal
>
> --
>
> Neal Gorenflo | Publisher, http://Shareable.net | 415.867.0429
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 8:30 PM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Hi Neal,
> >
> > this is the commentary I have added to the Carr piece:
> >
> > "Whatever its exagerrations, Nicholas Carr does point to a real point of
> > debate and division amongst those that favour openness, sharing, and the
> > commons as social practices.
> >
> > It's important to note that these are first of all social practices, and
> > though these are not value-less, people from different sides of the
> > political spectrum can love and adhere to those practices.
> >
> > People with leftist leanings will typically like the communal aspects of
> the
> > new practices; while people on the right will love the free initiative,
> i.e.
> > enterpreneurship, that is linked to these practices; people on the left
> will
> > insist on the aspects of the new practices that transcend capitalism and
> its
> > ideology; while people on the right will insist on how it not only
> > accomodates with business practices but promotes wealth.
> >
> > Here I would like to outline the kind of attitude I have favoured within
> the
> > dialogical community of the P2P Foundation:
> >
> > the dialogue must be pluralistic and honour all those who approve of the
> > practice, within the limits of civil discourse
> >
> > communities, markets and states are all part of our lifeworld, and we
> must
> > all deal with it, and somehow accommodate them for the sake of our
> > livelyhoods and those of our families, communities, and projects
> >
> > Nevertheless, I personally add the following basic attitudes:
> >
> > capitalism, as an infinite growth system that does not take into account
> > negative environmental and social externalities is not compatible with
> the
> > survival of the biosphere and our species, and is headed, at most in a
> few
> > decades, towards some form of self-destruction
> >
> > markets, have pre-existed and will probably survive the destruction of
> > capitalism; markets are simply one of the ways to allocate scarce
> resources
> >
> > communities and commons can accommodate, cooperate and even honour market
> > players who acknowledge the rules and norms of a commons, and contribute
> to
> > its sustainability
> >
> > nevertheless, profit maximisation is unethical and should be subsumed to
> > ethical goals and the benefit of the common good
> >
> > peer communities should preferentially choose for those enterpreneurial
> > forms that honour the value systems of the commons, and even create their
> > own vehicles, phyles, as ideally, the people who create the value should
> > also be the people who realize the value
> >
> > peer to peer is the most economically, politically and socially
> productive
> > mode of value creation presently available to humankind and is part of an
> > important emancipatory process; in the last analysis, this makes it
> > incompatibe with the eternal continuation of a system where inequality
> and
> > injustice are structrural features
> >
> > it's aim is to supersede capitalism and to embed market structures in a
> > higher ethical superstructure that acknowledges the common good
> >
> > in order to achieve this transformation to a civilisation and political
> > economy where the commons and peer production are at its core, we need to
> > develop a new and broad social hegemony, and this entails seeking
> > commonality with a wide variety of social forces, including progressive
> > enterpreneurs, genuine conservatives, including forces thay may nominally
> > claim they are in favour of 'capitalism' (but in practice mostly mean
> > 'markets')
> >
> > we have to acknowledge that it is frequently a positive thing for peer
> > communities in particular, and the growth of peer production generally,
> when
> > it is taken up by enterpreneurial forces, even as they themselves
> supporters
> > of profit maximisation
> >
> > With all these caveats in mind, it is still important to recognize the
> > distinction between those social forces 1) who are simply interested in
> > 'exploiting' peer to peer practices; 2) want to limit peer to peer
> practices
> > to what is compatible with the continued existence of a infinite growth
> > system.
> >
> > Netarchical capitalism, as a concept, not only is meant to convey that
> > sections of capital, understand the importance of peer production to
> their
> > own viability and profitability, but also to denote ideological efforts
> to
> > keep peer production within the bounds of, and eternally subordinated to
> the
> > market system.
> >
> > In my view, then the key to judge the works of people like Don Tapscott,
> > Steven Johnson and Rachel Botsman, is to go beyond their own focus on
> > market-friendlyness but to see whether they honour the autonomy of peer
> > production communities, the fair exchange between the commons and
> > enterpreneurial entities; and if their imaginary is compatible with peer
> > production and the commons taking a core role in our society, rather than
> a
> > subordinated role.
> >
> > I have not read any of the three works mentioned by Nicholas Carr, so I
> have
> > to withhold any judgment on this. But even if I would disagree with their
> > staying within the bounds of the present system, this would not preclude
> > dialogue and mutual learning.
> >
> > --
> > P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  -
> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
> >
> > Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
> > http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
> >
> > Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
> > http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
> >
> > Think tank: http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>



-- 
P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net

Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org

Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens

Think tank: http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listcultures.org/pipermail/p2presearch_listcultures.org/attachments/20101202/5865e9b2/attachment.html>