[p2p-research] My last two cents on the Wiki Showdown

[Michel Bauwens]

Hi Matt,

thanks for this,

please note that I have no objection in principle to technological
improvement through code, and I'm aware of its benefits.

For example, Nathan Cravens was instrumental in creating code for greatly
improving the lay-out of the double-column wiki section pages, and they have
become more popular because they are more readable.

The problem is only the wholesale imposition of a vision and its associated
code, without dialogue, without asking what would be beneficial or not, and
most importantly, a systematic brushing away of any concerns and
difficulties.

Since you're familiar with the history I'll just summarize, it started from
'read the fucking manual' to the more enlightened but still superior "I can
help you anytime you have difficulty with my code",

but at no time in the process, " are there things that are a priority from a
users point of view, that I could improve with specific code"

so I'm arriving at a point where I need a moratorium just to be able to do
the work I used to be able to do

I am not willing to have to test changes because they have a  cascading
effect and different effects in different contexts ...

You cannot demand of a content creator to carry the burden of faulty code
and to debug it.

Michel

On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 10:25 PM, Matt <matt at digiblade.com> wrote:

> I have been reluctant to opine on this battle because it is my nature to
> fully look at both sides and actually try to personally play the role of
> each side either in my head or in process. Michael, as the founder of all
> this, you certainly have the final word and my support. If it were not for
> you, I would not have stumbled upon this foundation over three years ago.
> On
> the other hand, as a 'techie' type, I can see where Alex wants to go. I've
> never wrote on the Wiki until a few days ago. I signed up and attempted to
> create an article trying to use a simple workflow of a 'non-techie'. It was
> not a pleasant experience. I then tried the WYSIWYG rich text editor. While
> solving some problems (stripping articles of all tags), it was horrible for
> putting in an article that did have hyperlinks. I tried my personal
> workflow
> on the Wiki and did not like it any better. I tried to find a conversion
> tool that would keep my precious hyperlinks and tagged diagrams and it just
> looked like a mess. Now Michael, I'm going to assume you are much better at
> inputting code into the Wiki than I. If not, well I see the problems. Here
> is an example:
> On the 8th of August I sent you and the list an article on Josiah Warren.
> The list got a sloppy version because Yahoo Groups cannot translate it.
> Michael got a really nice article with pictures and a wealth of links to
> explore if you wished.
>
> Here are my concluding thoughts: Alex and Michael need a break from each
> other. Alex needs better social skills to enunciate his goals on the Wiki.
> I
> do not think of Alex as an evil Sith Lord attempting to overthrow Michael
> 'Wan Kenobi'. I do think Alex is having a hard time being human to
>  Michaels
> through his 'Darth Vader' get up though, and needs to realize that if
> Michael wants to write straight text articles without the benefit of
> tagging, let him. Content is king. Michael, the code is important. It
> allows
> your work to gain a power of magnitude you may not realize. It is not the
> dark side and can be your friend. As a graphic example anyone can
> understand; Remember the talk about that software PersonalBrain ?. Well, I
> looked at it and it does have a steep learning curve. But, if you look at
> the examples of skilled users, you can see the obvious benefits it has. The
> P2P Wiki, can be brain like as well with all that (invisible) code making
> it
> easy for the masses who will never appreciate what's 'under the hood' but
> sure will love the convenience of it omg ! invite all their friends to
> check
> it out kinda thing.
>
> Matt
>
> PS I hope Alex does not get banned from the group like that 'other IPhone
> app' guy a year or two ago (he brought in some good discussions before
> going
> ballistic). I hope Alex just backs down in silence and let Michael do his
> work in the way he likes. And, some day, the foundation will be able to
> hire
> Alex or someone like him to plop all that code in full time, transparent to
> Michael.
>
>
>
>
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>



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