[p2p-research] Compromise? Submission to Process = Temporary Peace?

Thu Aug 12 15:54:50 CEST 2010

Alex,

you do not speak for all the users against a personal dictatorship, and I do
not take all decisions that are blindly followed by everybody.

I hardly take any decisions but work hard at creating content, and hopefully
a community and network.

Right now what I'm asking is that you stop your efforts at taking control of
the wiki and making all the info-architectural decisions on your own, as
they affect my work negatively, and by extension, other users with a similar
non-technical inclination.

There is of course an issue of peer governance and democratic processes in
our community, the need for it will grow as we grow our user base and people
will demand input and participation in what affects them. But that is quite
distinct from this particular personal conflict, in which I am asking as a
user for protection against your power, over which you seem not want to
accept any limitation. You come here with a legitimate vision, as do others,
but the difference is that you want to impose your idealized system, and I'm
opposed to that. Peer governance is also distinct from your creation of
hundreds of policy pages which have at this moment zero effect, because they
again proceed from your idealized vision of how we all should behave, and
not from any organic or emergent process that is apart from you. Again, you
are creating hundreds of pages of rules, as if we were a wikipedia with
thousands of users. I sincerely think that you are the victim of
megalomaniac tendencies, and can't proceed from the here and now.

You are not the democrat and I the dictator, this is a distortion, but I am
defending my right to work in a wiki that I created with the help of James,
without the constant imposition of new technical demands and time, just
because you have a vision of how things should be.

If you cannot abide with different visions, this is not your place, create
your own.

Despite your obvious qualities and skills, you cannot win this war the way
you are proceeding. If you stubbornly cling to your right to impose, you
have to leave. Just take a break to think and reflect, so that we can leave
this conflict at rest.

Michel

On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 8:42 PM, Alex Rollin <alex.rollin at gmail.com> wrote:

> Your proposal does not meet my needs for user rights.
>
> I think it's important to have a process to agree on changes like that.
>
> You are making all the decisions and don't have to listen to me at all.
>
> I have already agreed to what you said before, and now you keep adding
> conditions.  It will keep on like that and no structural reform will ever
> happen unless you participate in it or it is done around you by the other
> board members of the Foundation as listed in the original documents.
>
> Alex
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 3:39 PM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> I understand Alex,
>>
>> to be clear: I support the process, but not with someone who explicitely
>> declares, and repeated today several times in a skype conversation, that his
>> priority is to expel me from the board.
>>
>> In those circumstances, my support for the process is obsolete.
>>
>> If you change your position, then mine will revert to my original support
>> for James mediation proposal.
>>
>> However, I will now strongly insist to a moratorium on code in the
>> editorial pages. I do not want to be involved in constant fights like the
>> one we have over the transparency page. Code that has cascading efforts over
>> many pages should be provisionally removed.
>>
>> Once I can see that you understand my problems, we can slowly
>> re-introduce, on an experiment and agreed base, new code introductions. For
>> now, I need restoration of easy editing as a priority.
>>
>> My interpretation is: I want you to stop sabotaging the easy editorial
>> process, and I want you to focus your energies, if you insist on staying
>> here, in areas where they do not hinder my work and that of other people
>> similarly inclined.
>>
>> I do not want to spend 2-3 hours a day in dogfights with you because you
>> are impervious to my needs and wishes
>>
>> James:  you need to intervene one way or the other to stop this incessant
>> back and forth
>>
>> Michel
>>
>>   On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 8:19 PM, Alex Rollin <alex.rollin at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Forgive me for not being clear.
>>>
>>> I meant to ask:
>>>
>>> Will you submit to the process that you and James agreed to for conflict
>>> mediation on the page:
>>>
>>> http://p2pfoundation.net/Wiki_Use_Policy
>>>
>>> The process would be moderated by James or someone else you agree to.
>>>  Not me.  But that's all in the process you agreed to already.
>>>
>>> I don't need you to step down from the board for this to work.  I just
>>> need someone besides you, on the board or in power, to be involved in
>>> policy.  As a user I need that.  Other users need that too, I think.  That's
>>> why sites that are community sites have conflict resolution policies and
>>> procedures.  Because a community needs them.
>>>
>>> Alex
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 3:08 PM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> No Alex, I do not submit to you, which is how I read this.
>>>>
>>>> I propose an alternative, which is that you take a p2p foundation
>>>> holiday, that you wait a few weeks or 2-3 months until the passion has died
>>>> down,
>>>>
>>>> but in any case, if you do not retrack your stated hostile intent, we
>>>> will still be at a standstill.
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 7:57 PM, Alex Rollin <alex.rollin at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>  Does that soind like he is submitting to process?
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you submit Michel?
>>>>>
>>>>> No changes are being made to the wiki install.  I can't know fully what
>>>>> your deman is but I rexommend you dorward it to "process man" James and I
>>>>> agree by whatever he says.
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you submit?
>>>>>
>>>>> Alex
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Aug 12, 2010, at 2:48 PM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>   so my proposal is:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1) a pause in architectural changes
>>>>>
>>>>> 2) if Alex maintains his stated hostile intent, to give him all the
>>>>> support he needs to create a forked project
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 7:43 PM, j.martin.pedersen <<m.pedersen at lancaster.ac.uk>
>>>>> m.pedersen at lancaster.ac.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 12/08/10 13:30, Alex Rollin wrote:
>>>>>> > Let's step into process and quit broadcasting, hey?  Who like
>>>>>> process!?  I
>>>>>> > do I do!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is not "process" of the kind that leads to reconcillitation or
>>>>>> resolution. It is one of the central actors in the conflict setting
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> scene in a rhetorical/subjective fashion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If there is to be a "process", then someone else will have to step in
>>>>>> -
>>>>>> someone with at least the grace and skills to act "neutrally", even if
>>>>>> they aren't at heart.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am not volunteering - as I have neither the skills, nor overview,
>>>>>> nor
>>>>>> inclination.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -m
>>>>>>
>>>>>> PS: It is getting tiresome to listen to, though!
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
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>>>>> <http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/>http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>>> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>
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>>
>> Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
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>>
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>> Think tank: http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>>
>>
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-- 
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Think tank: http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
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