[p2p-research] some wiki editing rules

Mon Aug 9 16:17:55 CEST 2010

On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 4:21 AM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com> wrote:
> hi sam,
>
> I spent another 15 minutes today just to get an article posted by Alex to
> also show its categories ... there's so much code now on a page, lots of
> dead links, and there was no visible sourcing on the visible page ...
>
> I'm not blaming mistakes, but I don't see progress, when I can now post only
> 5 articles a day  instead of 30,
>
> for me, the technological approach should be emergent and organic, see from
> current practice how it can be improved, make sure everyone is on board,
>

I agree. There has to be some middleground here somewhere. Michel's
concerns should not be dismissed. This is really easy for me to
understand.

> it seems to me that the current vision is to imagine an idealized content
> manufacturing system, based on heaving coding, and which makes participation
> increasingly difficult, certainly on  my side, I am contemplating the
> creation of two wiki's, and to let Alex run a separate p2pfoundation.com,
> which he can automate at his heart's content
>
> since alex think I should just adapt and learn to code myself, our
> communication is not as smooth as it should be ...
>

This assumption is faulty, and seems to be breeding conflict among the
main participants of this resource. You shouldn't have to feel the
need to be driven to fork this wiki. P2P Foundation needs a way to
deal with conflicts like this, before they become destructive to
everyone connected.

> what is the rationale for wikipedia stuff?
>
> this was the 'historical practice': the  wiki is based on opportunistic
> updating, this is, relevant quotations are puzzled together and grow
> gradually into article combining various perspectives on a topic, a
> wikipedia definition was occasionally included for clarity and introduction,
> with just refernece to the rest of the article
>
> the intent of the wikipedia, a universal neutral and self-written
> encyclopedia, is entirely different from our wiki which was until now based
> on collecting the external collective intelligence
>
> alex is now creating a new layer with self-written articles on how to
> proceed for p2p organisations, which I applaud, and it doesn't interfere
> with the other layer of the wiki,
>
> however, the  forced technologizing of the wiki is a different matter, it's
> done without regard for previous need, based on a imposed idealistic vision
> of how others should work, integrated without dialogue, and greatly
> increases the difficulty of adding content ... it's in danger of creating
> the same effect as what happens int he wikipedia, flat growth, and then
> decline,
>
> for me, and I've considered this formulation, it is the gravest existential
> threat to the work I have undertaken so far, and this is why I feel so
> strong about it,
>
> I have often communicated with alex about not multiplying dead links,
> sourcing the articles, and other simple rules, but alex does not seem to
> agree with the old rules ... none of the old formats regarding
> titles/subtiles etc... is respected, it seems that wikipedia's rules have
> been introduced systematlically, but again this was never discussed
>
> conversation with alex, I'm sorry to say, always ends in his concluding
> remark, "this is how it should be done, and will be done from now on, get
> over it" ...
>

I don't think this is an acceptable way of dealing with the problem.

> I suppose this will lead to permanent trench warfare, and that I will go in
> a regular rage because of the powerlessness I feel, and the threat it
> represents to the wiki, as I see it,
>

I guess I don't fully understand P2P Foundation as an organization.
Are there not some rules that outline how resources shall be
co-governed/co-managed? If I recall correctly, the wiki was not
intended to be fully open, but was instead accessed via invitation
from you. Perhaps it's time to create a set of organizational rules
that describe clearly how resources are co-governed/co-managed?

> Michel
>
> On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 1:43 AM, Samuel Rose <samuel.rose at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 10:15 AM, Alex Rollin <alex.rollin at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > It's just wiki markup.
>>
>> Sounds to me, though, that it is not all decipherable by Michel.
>>
>> >Let me know when you run into a hiccup.
>> > Broadcasting to this list won't get me to respond. I don't copy off
>> > wikipedia for no reason.
>>
>> What is the rationale for including wikipedia stuff?
>>
>> >Check out the current inspiration for
>> > Michel's comment here.
>> >
>> > http://p2pfoundation.net/Talk:State_Capitalism
>> >
>> > A
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 4:09 PM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Dear friends,
>> >>
>> >> I would like to remind contributors of the policy that was used in the
>> >> last
>> >> four years:
>> >>
>> >> 1) please no wholesale dumping of wikipedia entries
>> >>
>> >> 2) please, no dead links, do not create links to material which you do
>> >> not
>> >> intend to create immediately (I had to change an article that had about
>> >> 40
>> >> dead links)
>> >>
>> >> 3) adding tons of complicated code is making editing a huge headache, I
>> >> am
>> >> now spending 15 minutes editing articles which used to take 30 seconds
>> >> ...
>> >> it's a huge drain on productivity
>> >>
>> >> I'm very close to feeling that my practice is incompatible with that of
>> >> Alex
>> >> Rollin (sorry Alex, but I got to say this), and that we will need two
>> >> wikis,
>> >> one where the geeks amongst us can play at their hearts content, and
>> >> one
>> >> which keeps the simplicity of organization and procedure which lead to
>> >> 12,000 articlds and 13 million pageviews in 4 years.
>> >>
>> >> Michel
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  -
>> >> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>> >>
>> >> Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
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>> >>
>> >> Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
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>> >>
>> >> Think tank:
>> >> http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
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>> >>
>> >
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> --
>> Sam Rose
>> Future Forward Institute and Forward Foundation
>> Tel:+1(517) 639-1552
>> Cel: +1-(517)-974-6451
>> skype: samuelrose
>> email: samuel.rose at gmail.com
>> http://forwardfound.org
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>> http://p2pfoundation.net
>>
>> "The universe is not required to be in perfect harmony with human
>> ambition." - Carl Sagan
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>
> Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
> http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
>
> Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
> http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>
> Think tank: http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>
>
>
>
>
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-- 
--
Sam Rose
Future Forward Institute and Forward Foundation
Tel:+1(517) 639-1552
Cel: +1-(517)-974-6451
skype: samuelrose
email: samuel.rose at gmail.com
http://forwardfound.org
http://futureforwardinstitute.org
http://socialsynergyweb.org/culturing
http://flowsbook.panarchy.com/
http://socialmediaclassroom.com
http://localfoodsystems.org
http://notanemployee.net
http://communitywiki.org
http://p2pfoundation.net

"The universe is not required to be in perfect harmony with human
ambition." - Carl Sagan