[p2p-research] The Production Bubble: Why Capitalism Withholds Solutions and Gets Away with It

[Alex Rollin]

Fanciful, Michel, how you can ascribe gigantic swaths of multi-agent
continental history to "petty" motivations.  I can only assume this is
another reason you don't live here in lovely, wonderful, sweet
smelling Europe.

It's gay pride day in Amsterdam, today.  A bit rainy,but that won't
stop the million or more visitors.  Is that a "petty" thing, to enjoy
a parade?

A

On Sat, Aug 7, 2010 at 11:36 AM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com> wrote:
> do you agree that there is a difference between:
>
> 1) knowing your gut and
>
> a) based on the contradictory tendencies of our gut, built in the right
> nudges against the most destructive  behavior
>
> b) glorifying the worst part of our gut ('greed is good') and devising a
> system that nudges us even more in that direction
>
> what you see as the socialist system by the way, was completely built around
> such desires for petty advancement ...
>
> as far as I'm aware neither the amish or the tibetans have actually 'burnt
> down the colonies' (have they?), but the hedge funders have nearly succeeded
> in destroying our biosphere ...
>
> Michel
>
> On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 1:10 AM, Ryan Lanham <rlanham1963 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 2:26 PM, M. Fioretti <mfioretti at nexaima.net>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 15:18:19 PM -0400, Ryan Lanham
>>> (rlanham1963 at gmail.com) wrote:
>>>
>>> > Scarcity is a function (always) of incentives.  What most people on
>>> > this list fail to try to understand is the psychology of incentives.
>>> > Incentives are why utopian colonies always fail.
>>>
>>> Ryan,
>>>
>>> _if_ you feel like it, may I ask you to elaborate (separately?) on the
>>> last two sentences above? I understand (I think) everything else you
>>> said, but the part above makes me real curious.
>>>
>>> TIA,
>>>        Marco
>>>
>>
>> Hi Marco,
>>
>> I will try.
>>
>> There seems to be increasing evidence that, as apes, we care about caste,
>> hierarchy, structure, relativity of reward and that these systems of reward
>> and motivation are not to be reasoned away...they are in the bone.
>>
>> If this is true...if...then we must somehow come to terms with our own
>> sense of desire.  We want.  We need.  We hope.  Intellectualize that away,
>> and we become socialist robots devoid of our human desires...in Star Trek
>> terms, we abandon our inner Klingon.  It will not be abandoned.
>>
>> For the Klingon in us is what makes sex power and joy and what makes
>> cities vibrant and full of despair and dreams.  Kill the animal and AI has
>> won in all the wrong ways.  The true AI will be emotional, devotional,
>> wanting, passionate and hungry for experience, emotion, and experience.
>>
>> It is a strawman (as usual) to posit that the so-called neo-liberal
>> transhumanist state leads to money-making robots talking to other
>> accountant-like robots.  No.  The killers need to drink blood.  It is indeed
>> the equilibrium seekers who expose their fear of their own humanity.  It is
>> they who seek to be neutered.  To be sexless, emotionless, desireless monks
>> lost in inner worlds of metaphysics because the real world is too emotional,
>> too traumatic for them to bear.
>>
>> And so, we must know our gut.  We have to plumb passion if we are going to
>> be peers.  We need to understand the tentative nature of our wants and the
>> delicate balance of peace in a bar full of tail.
>>
>> Until we do that, until we realize that hierarchy and mud wrestling are in
>> us like intestines and marrow, we're not on a good path.
>>
>> It is these passions set loose that kill the idealist and the utopian.  It
>> is the Amish whore who burns the colony down.  It is the desirous monk who
>> rises to command an army of Tibetans.  There is no abandoning these
>> tendencies.  They are us.
>>
>> R.
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>
>
>
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