[p2p-research] semantic wiki extension

Tue Aug 3 07:00:29 CEST 2010

here is the way I see it,

there are now two wiki's in one,

the first one is the wiki as visible through the home page, it is based on
opportunistic updating, a organicist/emergentist approach to knowledge
creation, and a certain view of taxonomy; It is not perfect, but at the same
time, not unsuccessfull in certain respects, certainly in terms of audience
and online reputation

there is a second, more invisible wiki, not accessible through the home
page, but based on an alternative 'organisational' (more internally focused)
 taxonomy developed by Alex, it is based on the construction of
positivist/concrete/actionalble knowledge for peer organizations

if we have a view of abundance, they can co-exist, be complementary,
mutually enrich each other, and the second can be seen as an extension and
maturation of the first

however, in areas of scarcity, such as the home page, consistency has to be
maintained and protected, through I have no objection in reserving an area
for direct access to the other layer that Alex is constructing,

Sam's point is a good one, neither me nor Alex have negotiated their
approach,

in my case this was a pretty natural processes, since no one objected and
very few people contributed

in alex case, he also started pretty much tabula rasa to my feeling, did not
or rarely consult about new taxonomies, except post-facto .. there is now a
huge amount of competing category tags with nearly identical meanings, but
based on the different approaches outlined above ..

I have also time concerns, I cannot follow or monitor the huge work and
additions that alex is producing, so my attitude is 'defensive', go ahead as
long as you do not endanger the integrity of the whole as expressed in the
home page presentation

in the sense that alex has already created a huge amount of content and new
categories, we are already beyond social negotiations for that part,

I also feel alex's approach, though it makes sense in many ways, is very
complex, and requires a lot of lead time to go into it, so it is meant for
committed afficionados

on the other hand, I feel the subject/format approach is very accessible,
but the main issue of my approach is 'volume', which again requires a
different kind of committment; I'm very much in favour, at some point, if
time or money would be available, to create a new layer for beginners,
accessible through a series of simplified pages

so I have to reserve my energy to the integrity of the home page
organisation and the preservation of the coherence of the legacy system
(though it's not just legacy, it's continuing to grow and be built on a
continuing basis)

On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 8:56 PM, Samuel Rose <samuel.rose at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 9:21 AM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > well, I do have some issues with it ...
> >
> > we had a taxonomical system, represented by the three columns of the main
> > wiki page, and the geographic distinctions
> >
> > i.e. internal material, topical material, and format categories
> >
> > most of your contributions and new category tags are internal material,
> > which was not existent before, so I'm happy with that, though I won't use
> > them much myself,
> >
> > but then, in your proposed
> > http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:P2P_Resource_Collections you mix both
> > topics and formats, and I don't think that is a good idea ...
> >
> > personally, I see our minds functioning very differently, and it is true
> > that the wiki presently corresponds to a particular way of thinking, and
> > probably my librarian thinking ...
> >
>
> I've seen this dynamic arise in many wiki communities in the past. It
> is inevitable if more than one participant has a strong desire to
> affect the info architecture of the wiki.
>
>
> This problem is a social negotiation problem, and I'd like to
> recommend that changes to category structures be frozen or stopped
> (including work on semantic wiki extensions), until all participants
> in the management of that part of the wiki have time to come to a
> mutual understanding, and perhaps in the process create some simple
> community rules and guidelines around how the taxonomies are
> architected. There are at least 3 major stakeholders here (Michel,
> Alex Rollins, James Burke) perhaps others that I am not aware of.
>
> Perhaps one rule could be:
>
> Discuss/debate, formulate a working process, then change (rather than
> change -> discuss/debate).
>
> Perhaps changes to our wiki that are disputed could also be mediated
> (this may already be happening with discussion from James Burke).
>
> In http://communitywiki.org we ended up creating
> http://www.communitywiki.org/CommunityWikiBylaws to create a fair way
> to co-govern, and it worked very well (we even used a system similar
> to Henrik Ingo's delegations for people not present :-D )
>
>
>
>
>
> > but I feel that most new categories are not obvious for me, and represent
> a
> > particular Rollin point of view, the problem is that they are now not
> > accessible via the main page, so people have to be in the know, which is
> why
> > I proposed that you add your own subcolumn on the left side
> >  I hope that Alex and Michel continue this dialogue
>
> > so I feel,
> >
> > that most rollin categories should be under subcategory one, the internal
> > stack
> >
> > that the others should either be under topic or format
> >
> > and geography and languages are added aspects of any article
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 8:13 PM, Alex Rollin <alex.rollin at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Returning to this thread, I offer a durable taxonomical system for the
> >> wiki that can be expanded to include additional collections.
> >>  http://p2pfoundation.net/P2P_Foundation_Wiki_Taxonomy
> >> Additions, corrections and changes are welcome.
> >>
> >> I do believe that the Semantic extension could be more at home now.
> >> DynamicPageList is now functioning and can provide a few of the
> automated
> >> lists needed as more structure and templates are added.  Several forms
> are
> >> now being used to allow users to add templated articles for common uses,
> and
> >> these articles would be much more re-usable if they were done with SMW.
> >> Many of the most complex pages then could be rendered automatically
> >> instead of with tedious tables and such. Many of the most beautiful
> pages
> >> are out of date now for this reason.   I suspect that the lengthy html,
> so
> >> easily destroyed, is one of the primary reasons for this.
> >> Because the wiki is not installed in a folder many of the JS functions
> >> were not working previously. In the near future I suspect that the site
> will
> >> need to be served from http://p2pfoundation.net/wiki/ in order to
> upgrade
> >> and make use of additional Usability improvement extensions.
> >> A
> >>
> >> On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 5:26 PM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com
> >
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> hi thomas,
> >>>
> >>> I trust you and kasper,
> >>>
> >>> but I do prefer trying things on the copy wiki first, just to make sure
> >>> ... I wouldn't want to mess up the 10,000 pages of content and the
> >>> experience with new tech is pretty consistently that there are always
> bugs
> >>> ... which geeks like to solve but I don't <g>
> >>>
> >>> but feel free to port when you feel the whole thing is mature,
> >>>
> >>> and to create a technical mailing list,
> >>>
> >>> Michel
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 9:21 PM, Thomas Kalka
> >>> <thomas.kalka at googlemail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Michel:
> >>>> > my problem is that I really don't have time for experimentation and
> >>>> > sandboxes, I just can't keep up with publishing and communication
> demands
> >>>> > ... also, even with the examples you've send me, I still have a hard
> time
> >>>> > understanding what it is for,
> >>>>  >perhaps Eli would like to experiment, with some concrete things
> >>>> related to the new sections he's creating on transportation etc ...
> Eli is
> >>>> quite active too now,
> >>>> If you delegate, you have to trust ;-)
> >>>>
> >>>> If I get the account  data, I will install the enhancements on the
> main
> >>>> site.
> >>>>
> >>>> We can switch everything back any time anyway.
> >>>>
> >>>> In addition we should create a mailinglist for people working on
> >>>> p2pfoundation infrastracture (wiki/website etc).
> >>>>
> >>>> --toka
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Work: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University - Think
> >>> thank: http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
> >>>
> >>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  -
> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
> >>>
> >>> Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
> >>> http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
> >>>
> >>> Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
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> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>
> >>
> >>
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> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  -
> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
> >
> > Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
> > http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
> >
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> >
> > Think tank: http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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> >
>
>
>
> --
> --
> Sam Rose
> Future Forward Institute and Forward Foundation
> Tel:+1(517) 639-1552
> Cel: +1-(517)-974-6451
> skype: samuelrose
> email: samuel.rose at gmail.com
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>
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>
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-- 
P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net

Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
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Think tank: http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
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