[p2p-research] Concerning wikiworld and its use of socialist terminology

Fri Apr 30 06:39:28 CEST 2010

I understand ... I know Daniel quite well for having had him over a few
times and staying at his place,

you and him share a very broadly similar worldview, which I would call
social liberal ... and you're both northamerican

On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 12:33 AM, Ryan Lanham <rlanham1963 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Michel,
>
> I must say I sympathize deeply with the tone Daniel is using.
>
> Ryan
>
>   On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 10:36 PM, Michel Bauwens <
> michelsub2004 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>   Hi Tere,
>>
>> this is from a little dialogue on facebook,
>>
>> perhaps you want to say something about your future vision and your choice
>> of terminology?
>>
>> couldn't find the beginning of the discussion, but you'll get the drift
>>
>> Michel
>>
>>
>>  *Daniel Araya* <http://www.facebook.com/dezuanni>* *April 28 at 11:45pm
>>  Michel. New models are always appreciated even if they borrow from
>> 'communism'. But a direct application-- its silly.
>>
>> Why do you continue to deny the wealth generated by capitalism and wax
>> poetic about an abstract communism that exists no where. Have you read Don
>> Quixote?
>>    <http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens>
>>  *Michel Bauwens* <http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens>* *April 29 at
>> 12:07am
>>  Daniel: I gather neither you nor me actually read the book, so what are
>> we talking about. As for me, I'm only talking about the real observable,
>> already existing thing: the peer to peer dynamics online, and the commons of
>> the physical world, not of which are abstract. So I'm wondering what you are
>> referring to?
>>    <http://www.facebook.com/dezuanni>
>>  *Daniel Araya* <http://www.facebook.com/dezuanni>* *April 29 at 12:12am
>>  I'm talking about confusing p2p with communism. One is an emergent form
>> (growing out of the real capacities of networks--- collective intelligence).
>> The other is a romantic vision for a secular paradise of worker coops. They
>> may be parallel but in my mind they're not the same.
>>
>> Don't be offended. Just reacting to the liberal use of the word
>> 'communism' in that wikiworld book.
>>    <http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens>
>>  *Michel Bauwens* <http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens>* *April 29 at 9:48am
>>
>>  technically, p2p as a social mode is what alan page fiske calls
>> communcal chareholding, i.e. exchange with a totality, it is not related to
>> workers coop, which is currently just a different market modality, unless
>> there would not be work for money exchange in the coop. as far as I can see
>> Tere's is asking is how do we get from p2p in the immaterial world, to a
>> system of worker coops. If that is your usage of communism (in old marxist
>> terms, this is what technically would rather be socialism, i.e. the
>> intermediary stage where there is still exchange, i.e. everyone gets
>> rewarded according to effort.
>>    <http://www.facebook.com/dezuanni>
>>  *Daniel Araya* <http://www.facebook.com/dezuanni>* *April 29 at 10:07am
>>  Michel, you are humorless on this subject. The point is not "my
>> interpretation" but the common understanding of a term loaded with
>> generations of assumptions. It is not merely an empty signifier but comes
>> with over a century of political contestation. Tere clearly uses the term
>> communism to highlight Marxism not despite it. So its not some 'new road'
>> he's pointing to but a mere restating of a well-worn gospel. Build a working
>> an example of this utopia and I'm sure people will begin to take it
>> seriously again. Until then...
>>    <http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=528245547>
>>  *Michel Bauwens* <http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=528245547>* *April
>> 29 at 10:32am
>>  that is why I personally not use this terminology, because indeed it is
>> so loaded, and certainly in the U.S., can only lead to misinterpretation
>>
>>
>> --
>> Work: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University - Think
>> thank: http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>>
>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>>
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>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
> --
> Ryan Lanham
> rlanham1963 at gmail.com
> Facebook: Ryan_Lanham
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-- 
Work: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University - Think thank:
http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI

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