[p2p-research] Concerning wikiworld and its use of socialist terminology

[Ryan Lanham]

Michel,

I must say I sympathize deeply with the tone Daniel is using.

Ryan

On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 10:36 PM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>wrote:

> Hi Tere,
>
> this is from a little dialogue on facebook,
>
> perhaps you want to say something about your future vision and your choice
> of terminology?
>
> couldn't find the beginning of the discussion, but you'll get the drift
>
> Michel
>
>
>  *Daniel Araya* <http://www.facebook.com/dezuanni>* *April 28 at 11:45pm
>  Michel. New models are always appreciated even if they borrow from
> 'communism'. But a direct application-- its silly.
>
> Why do you continue to deny the wealth generated by capitalism and wax
> poetic about an abstract communism that exists no where. Have you read Don
> Quixote?
>    <http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens>
>  *Michel Bauwens* <http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens>* *April 29 at 12:07am
>
>  Daniel: I gather neither you nor me actually read the book, so what are
> we talking about. As for me, I'm only talking about the real observable,
> already existing thing: the peer to peer dynamics online, and the commons of
> the physical world, not of which are abstract. So I'm wondering what you are
> referring to?
>    <http://www.facebook.com/dezuanni>
>  *Daniel Araya* <http://www.facebook.com/dezuanni>* *April 29 at 12:12am
>  I'm talking about confusing p2p with communism. One is an emergent form
> (growing out of the real capacities of networks--- collective intelligence).
> The other is a romantic vision for a secular paradise of worker coops. They
> may be parallel but in my mind they're not the same.
>
> Don't be offended. Just reacting to the liberal use of the word 'communism'
> in that wikiworld book.
>    <http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens>
>  *Michel Bauwens* <http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens>* *April 29 at 9:48am
>  technically, p2p as a social mode is what alan page fiske calls communcal
> chareholding, i.e. exchange with a totality, it is not related to workers
> coop, which is currently just a different market modality, unless there
> would not be work for money exchange in the coop. as far as I can see Tere's
> is asking is how do we get from p2p in the immaterial world, to a system of
> worker coops. If that is your usage of communism (in old marxist terms, this
> is what technically would rather be socialism, i.e. the intermediary stage
> where there is still exchange, i.e. everyone gets rewarded according to
> effort.
>    <http://www.facebook.com/dezuanni>
>  *Daniel Araya* <http://www.facebook.com/dezuanni>* *April 29 at 10:07am
>  Michel, you are humorless on this subject. The point is not "my
> interpretation" but the common understanding of a term loaded with
> generations of assumptions. It is not merely an empty signifier but comes
> with over a century of political contestation. Tere clearly uses the term
> communism to highlight Marxism not despite it. So its not some 'new road'
> he's pointing to but a mere restating of a well-worn gospel. Build a working
> an example of this utopia and I'm sure people will begin to take it
> seriously again. Until then...
>    <http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=528245547>
>  *Michel Bauwens* <http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=528245547>* *April
> 29 at 10:32am
>  that is why I personally not use this terminology, because indeed it is
> so loaded, and certainly in the U.S., can only lead to misinterpretation
>
>
> --
> Work: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University - Think
> thank: http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>
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-- 
Ryan Lanham
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