[p2p-research] [fcf_discussion] Re: Piracy and job losses in the EU

Fri Apr 16 17:04:11 CEST 2010

of course, it's excellent as usual!

thanks for eventually post-dating it to the 21st,

Michel

On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 5:38 PM, Ignacio <mahoudrid at gmail.com> wrote:

> After some time without publishing, I am back again:
>
>
> http://golpedee-estado.blogspot.com/2010/04/one-of-crucial-characteristics-of-p2p.html
>
> Shall I post it in the p2pfoundation blog?
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 1:07 PM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> ok!
>>
>> leaving barcelona today,
>>
>> Michel
>>
>>   On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 1:29 AM, Ignacio <mahoudrid at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I wasn´t meaning that the result were inconsistent, I don´t think so. I
>>> hoped to get more "solid" results -my mistake, in spanish consistent has
>>> both meanings.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 8:05 PM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> is there any report on the 'inconsistent' results <g> (better than no
>>>> results at all!)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 4:01 PM, Ignacio <mahoudrid at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> It was great to see you as well. My only remorse is that our economic
>>>>> workshop didn´t manage to deliver more consistent results...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Apr 10, 2010 at 3:34 AM, Michel Bauwens <
>>>>> michelsub2004 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> it was great to see you in bcn!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 11:51 PM, Ignacio <mahoudrid at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi David,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I presume that the mail has something to do with the study published
>>>>>>> by the industry through Tera consultants,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Building a digital Economy: The Importance of Saving Jobs in the
>>>>>>> EU’s Creative  Industries<http://www.iccwbo.org/uploadedFiles/BASCAP/Pages/Building%20a%20Digital%20Economy%20-%20TERA%281%29.pdf>
>>>>>>> "
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I took the time to read through the study and posted a critical
>>>>>>> review. Interestingly Tera Consultants´study crucially depends on an
>>>>>>> article by Oberholzer-Gee & Strumpf (2009) and is spuriously used.
>>>>>>> This  article was presented at the FCF and one of the authors interviewed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The post is in spanish
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://saciatuego.wordpress.com/2010/03/29/mentiras-malditas-mentiras-y-estadisticas/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> by the end of the day I expect to have an english version in my blog
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ignacio de Castro Arribas
>>>>>>> http://golpedee-estado.blogspot.com/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 12:28 AM, david at davidhammerstein.org <
>>>>>>> david at davidhammerstein.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>   *JOB LOSSES IN EUROPE AND " ILLEGAL DOWNLOADS": MYTHS AND REALITY
>>>>>>>> *
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1. * IT IS GROSSLY FALSE TO DIRECTLY RELATE THE NUMBER OF PIRATED
>>>>>>>> DOWNLOADS WITH JOB LOSSES IN EUROPE.  *
>>>>>>>> **
>>>>>>>>   Studies that blame Internet downloads for massive job losses
>>>>>>>> reflect a very faulty methodology put forward  by the US Motion Picture
>>>>>>>> Association that has already been discredited by serious social science
>>>>>>>> studies such as those carried out over a period of three years in seven
>>>>>>>> countries by the Social Science Research Center of New York. European jobs
>>>>>>>> have not been lost due to "piracy".  Industry financed studies that simply
>>>>>>>> add up the number of downloads and conclude that a scandalous number of EU
>>>>>>>> jobs are lost lack any serious objective scientific consideration of the
>>>>>>>> economy and of consumer spending as a whole.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2. *DIGITAL PIRACY "REASSIGNS" ECONOMIC CONSUMPTION WITHOUT CAUSING
>>>>>>>> A NET ECONOMIC LOSS TO ECONOMY.*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  Downloading cultural material means money is spent  instead in
>>>>>>>> other areas such as housing, food and services rather than on buying CDs.
>>>>>>>> The alternative expenditures could be more job creating, more productive and
>>>>>>>> more socially valuable than spending on digital entertainment materials.
>>>>>>>> There can even be a social benefit to spending less on digital entertainment
>>>>>>>> and more on other goods. As well, both less money being spent on digital
>>>>>>>> entertainment and more downloading can often mean more money spent on live
>>>>>>>> performances and theater which benefits performers and creators more
>>>>>>>> directly.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 3 *THE IMPACT OF DOWNLEADING ON THE EU IS LESS BECAUSE 80% OF
>>>>>>>> EUROPEAN FILM ENTERTAINMENT MATERIAL AND SOFTWARE IS IMPORTED FROM THE US.
>>>>>>>> *
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  It can even be argued that diverting this spending to other goods
>>>>>>>> generally made in the EU has a net benefit for the European economy and for
>>>>>>>> the net creation of jobs. For example, a Dutch Government study suggests
>>>>>>>> that music piracy has had a clear net positive impact on economic welfare in
>>>>>>>> Netherlands. The supporters of the false studies on piracy should ask
>>>>>>>> themselves if they are really defending European interests.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 4. *THE DIGITAL AGE POSES A REAL CHALLENGE TO A NUMBER OF EXISTING
>>>>>>>> INDUSTRIAL *MODELS.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It is very true that certain industries have been hurt by the
>>>>>>>> multiple effects of Internet.  These companies need to reconvert and adapt
>>>>>>>> their industrial structures to the new realities instead of trying to change
>>>>>>>> the digital reality by means of new legislative and repressive measures. New
>>>>>>>> business models needed to be moulded for the digital age that respect
>>>>>>>> fundamental rights,  that  strengthen citizens´ confidence  and  that
>>>>>>>> promote cultural innovation.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> David Hammerstein, Transatlantic Consumer Dialogue
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----
>>>>>>>> +info http://list.fcforum.net/wws/info/fcforum_discussion
>>>>>>>> ----
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----
>>>>>>> +info http://list.fcforum.net/wws/info/fcforum_discussion
>>>>>>> ----
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  --
>>>>>> Work: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University - Think
>>>>>> thank: http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>>>>>>
>>>>>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  -
>>>>>> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
>>>>>> http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
>>>>>> http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Work: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University - Think
>>>> thank: http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>>>>
>>>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  -
>>>> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>>>>
>>>> Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
>>>> http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
>>>>
>>>> Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
>>>> http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Work: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University - Think
>> thank: http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>>
>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>>
>> Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
>> http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
>>
>> Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
>> http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

-- 
Work: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University - Think thank:
http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI

P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net

Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org

Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
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