[p2p-research] [Commoning] new post

[Michel Bauwens]

I feel the problem with parecon, it's completely designed, and there's
nothing organic about, doesn't start from any real social practice ...

it's a 'wouldn't it be nice if we organized society like this' kind of
approach ...

In any case, I've engaged in a serial debate with michael albert on the z
site ... and it will be part of a book,

Michel

On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 2:36 PM, John Haltiwanger <
john.haltiwanger at gmail.com> wrote:

> I am instantly reminded of participatory economics, a la Robin Hahnel (
> http://www.amazon.com/Economic-Justice-Democracy-Competition-Twenty-First/dp/0415933455) and Z Communications (
> http://www.zcommunications.org/ ). I've always wanted to see this idea
> gain more verbal traction---as of now it is rarely mentioned, if ever. It is
> a sound model, developed by economists to have built in checks against
> common problems in capitalist and centralized economies.
>
>   On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 9:16 AM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
>>   Dear Andreas,
>>
>> yes, this is a very important and difficult topic, because, though markets
>> have preceded capitalism for a few thousand years, breaking the link would
>> now be much more difficult.
>>
>> I would add to your more classic analysis, and do feel free to send some
>> english links on that german economist, that there is now an important
>> discovery about the design of money itself, that leads to accumulation even
>> without capitalism. This would mean that building alternative structures,
>> based on open design communities and distributed manufacturing, who could
>> operate a lot of their activities through mutual coordination instead of
>> market signals, could also buy and sell rival goods without any necessity
>> for accumulation, if they would use differently designed money.
>>
>> The latter priority is part and parcel of the p2p approach, in fact a
>> central plank,
>>
>> Michel
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 4:15 AM, Andreas Exner <andreas.exner at chello.at>wrote:
>>
>>> hi all, espacially michel,
>>>
>>> what we did not really discuss in crottorf, though i think it to
>>> be of great importance, is the thesis, that market logics could
>>> be decoupled from capitalism.
>>>
>>> i wish that to be discussed some day in a more profound
>>> way. actually we recently submitted a research project where
>>> this question (inter alia) will be tackled.
>>>
>>> actually, i would argue that the growth imperative is founded
>>> on one central structural feature of a money economy, i.e. one reigned
>>> by markets (of labor, first of all): the abstract character of
>>> (economic) value.
>>>
>>> this leads to
>>>
>>> (1) an urge to grow, since more money is better than less money,
>>> and agents in a market economy have (per definition) no other
>>> means to measure economic success than to compare expenditures
>>> (in money terms) and income (in money terms)
>>>
>>> (2) a compulsion to grow, since markets imply competition for abstract
>>> value.
>>>
>>> this essentially is the position of Marx, but can be found also in
>>> the interesting works of the "bourgeois" economist hans christoph
>>> binswanger.
>>>
>>> best wishes, andreas
>>>
>>>
>>> >
>>> > great reportage Massimo ... this is pretty much what I envision the
>>> > transition situation to be, when commoning becomes more central within
>>> > capitalism, but with great potential for a phase transition away from
>>> > it,   as you indicate, it has problems, but it is at the same time
>>> > vastly superior of the existing corporate alternatives in so many
>>> > ways,   the question then becomes how to extend the commons aspects on
>>> > a local and global scale, and how to divorce market logics from
>>> > capitalism as an infinite growth system centered on endless
>>> > accumulation,   Michel
>>> >
>>> > On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 11:24 PM, Massimo De Angelis
>>> > <commoning at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >     Hello everybody
>>> >     here is the latest reflection on a strange place we found high up
>>> >     on the Ecuadorian Andes. It is quite amazing that in a desolate
>>> >     and far away area  like this, you could find so much
>>> >     "entrepreneurship" . . .but what makes this Salinas experience
>>> >     truly interesting and intriguing is the mixture of commonism and
>>> >     capitalism we have found . . .
>>> >
>>> > Read
>>> > Branding + Mingas + Coops = Salinas
>>> > at http://www.commoner.org.uk/blog/?p=239
>>> >
>>> > Saludos
>>> > Massimo
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Commoning mailing list
>>> > Commoning at lists.wissensallmende.de
>>> > http://lists.wissensallmende.de/mailman/listinfo/commoning
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Work: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University - Think
>>> > thank: http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>>> >
>>> > P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  -
>>> > http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>>> >
>>> > Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
>>> > http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
>>> >
>>> > Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
>>> > http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Work: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University - Think
>> thank: http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>>
>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>>
>> Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
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>>
>> Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
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-- 
Work: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University - Think thank:
http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI

P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net

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