[p2p-research] Re(interest, credit): [Commoning] Re(markets without capital?): new post

[Michel Bauwens]

totally disagree Andreas,

interest is a key mechanism for infinite growth, in fact; it is not
compatible with a static society at all; which is why it was forbidden in
precapitalist times, and why getting rid of that prohibition was a central
ideological struggle for capital to emerge,

see the works of bernard lietaer and generally
http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:Money

following intro material:


The P2P Foundation supports the direct social production of money, such as
for example through Open Money <http://p2pfoundation.net/Open_Money> and
other P2P Exchange Infrastructure
Projects<http://p2pfoundation.net/P2P_Exchange_Infrastructure_Projects>systems.
This marvellous presentation by Robin
Upton <http://www.altruists.org/f598> explains how this can work.

Key distinctions: Currencies <http://p2pfoundation.net/Currencies> ; Free
Currencies <http://p2pfoundation.net/Free_Currencies> ;
Wealth<http://p2pfoundation.net/Wealth>

For starters, read Eric Harris-Braun key argument: Why Monetary Design is
Important <http://p2pfoundation.net/Why_Monetary_Design_is_Important>

The following guide has all the essentials on Open
Money<http://p2pfoundation.net/Open_Money>and Complementary
Currencies <http://p2pfoundation.net/Complementary_Currencies> and is really
recommended, for beginners and practitioners alike:

   - Community Currency
Guide<http://p2pfoundation.net/Community_Currency_Guide>.
   by Bernard Lietaer and Gwendolyn Hallsmith. 2006
[2]<http://www.global-community.org/gc/newsfiles/25/Community%20Currency%20Guide.pdf>

It explains the following basics: 1) The Function of
Money<http://p2pfoundation.net/Function_of_Money>;
2) the Purpose of Money <http://p2pfoundation.net/Purpose_of_Money>; Cost
Recovery Mechanisms for Complementary
Currencies‎<http://p2pfoundation.net/Cost_Recovery_Mechanisms_for_Complementary_Currencies>
;
Currency Issuing
Procedures<http://p2pfoundation.net/Currency_Issuing_Procedures>,
and much more.


*Introductory Articles*

   1. Read this excellent introduction to the negative role of
   interest-based money by Charles
Eisenstein<http://www.realitysandwich.com/money_a_new_beginning>
   2. Best current report on the topic: Creating New
Money<http://p2pfoundation.net/Creating_New_Money>:
   A monetary reform for the information age. By Joseph Huber & James
   Robertson. New Economics Foundation
   3. Arthur Brock: Differences between Open Source and Open
Currencies<http://p2pfoundation.net/Differences_between_Open_Source_and_Open_Currencies>
   4. Kevin Carson introduces the Peer
Money<http://p2pfoundation.net/Peer_Money>debates
   5. Michel Bauwens on the Importance of Peer
Money<http://p2pfoundation.net/Michel_Bauwens_on_the_Importance_of_Peer_Money>
   6. *Alan Rosenblith: We need P2P Architectures for
Money<http://p2pfoundation.net/P2P_Architectures_for_Money>
   !!*
   7. Jean-Francois Noubel: Economics of Flow vs Economics of
Accumulation<http://p2pfoundation.net/Economics_of_Flow_vs_Economics_of_Accumulation>


*Hot Topics:*

   1. The historical experience of the Worgl
Shillings<http://p2pfoundation.net/Worgl_Shillings>
   2. WIR Economic Circle
Cooperative<http://p2pfoundation.net/WIR_Economic_Circle_Cooperative>:
   this 70-old Swiss mutual credit clearing system is getting traction as a
   model for the rest of Europe
   3. The creation of the Open Source Hardware Reserve
Bank<http://p2pfoundation.net/Open_Source_Hardware_Reserve_Bank>.
   Details here<http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/the-economics-of-open-source-hardware-need-a-oshw-bank/2009/03/14>
   4. The Metacurrency Project<http://p2pfoundation.net/Metacurrency_Project>:
   the tci/ip platform for diverse currency creation: *see the
Flowspace<http://p2pfoundation.net/Flowspace>project
   * as first attempt to establish sucn an infrastructure for Free
   Currencies <http://p2pfoundation.net/Free_Currencies>
   5. Open Coin<https://trac.opencoin.org/trac/opencoin/browser/trunk/standards/>:
   an actual published open specification for creating distributed digital
   currency
   6. The Swedish interest-free JAK Bank <http://p2pfoundation.net/JAK_Bank>
   [3] <http://www.feasta.org/documents/review2/carrie2.htm>
   7. The Common Good Bank
<http://p2pfoundation.net/Common_Good_Bank>initiative
   [4] <http://commongoodbank.com/>
   8. The Resource Based
Economy<http://p2pfoundation.net/Resource_Based_Economy>,
   a system in which money and barter serve no purpose
   9. Banco Palmas <http://p2pfoundation.net/Banco_Palmas>, in Brazil, emits
   a local currency and supports the local economy


*Goals:*

   1. Better redistribution of the existing
money<http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:Policy>
   2. Transformation of the monetary
system<http://p2pfoundation.net/Monetary_Reform>through the social
production of money
   3. Alternatives to money: Peer
Production<http://p2pfoundation.net/Peer_Production> ;
   Gift Economy <http://p2pfoundation.net/Gift_Economy> ;
Sharing<http://p2pfoundation.net/Sharing>;
   and other ways to assist in a transition to a more Resource Based
Economy<http://p2pfoundation.net/Resource_Based_Economy>through Peer
   to Peer Exchanges <http://p2pfoundation.net/Peer_to_Peer_Exchanges> and P2P
   Exchange Infrastructure
Projects<http://p2pfoundation.net/P2P_Exchange_Infrastructure_Projects>


On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 7:45 AM, Andreas Exner <andreas.exner at chello.at>wrote:

> Dear Franz
>
> You are right in the sense, that we can differentiate
> between basic and developed forms of capital.
>
> However, when I am talking about "the secondary nature
> of interest", I am refering to the logical secondariness of
> interest as compared to profit (interest is a part of profit,
> not the other way round).
>
> I think you are mixing up credit and interest.
>
> Credit is of course a key factor of speeding up accumulation.
> (Interest however is hampering accumulation as a tendency;
> credit is not financed necessarily or completely out of profits,
> as we know, but is created "ex nihilo" for a large part - in fact,
> that is the reason why credit accelerates accumulation).
>
> But the core point I wanted to make with respect to Michel:
>
> Interest is definitely NOT the cause or driver of the growth of capital.
>
> I do not know ANY argument for that.
>
> And this you can illustrate by assuming a capitalism without interest.
>
> Competition (implied by the dominance of money relations) and the
> abstractness of money (we do NOT need to talk about value
> here, for this point) are sufficient and in fact the
> real causes/drivers for growth.
>
> Take interest away and you still have an urge and compulsion of
> capital to grow. (And, curiously enough: push up interest and
> you kill growth).
>
> best, Andreas
>
> > "Andreas Exner" <andreas.exner at chello.at> schreibt:
> > >
> > >Capital accumulation is in no way caused or driven by interest (as
> > >you suggest probably).
> > >
> > >First of all, the abstract nature of economic value (embodied by
> > >money) (resulting in "quantitativism" and "boundless growth")
> > >
> > >Secondly, by competition for abstract value.
> > >
> > >Interest is a secondary phenomenon (actually hampering growth, as
> > >common economic policy measures show).
> >
> >
> > Andreas, i do not quite agree with that juxtaposition.
> >
> > In fact, the shere tendency of value to become the governing structure
> > of production is begetting certain logical steps that you seem to
> > omit.
> >
> > The accumulation imperative does not fall from heaven.
> > It is enacted by certain value forms that make value production the
> > dominant motive.
> >
> > Marx had demonstrated this in his analysis of money functions and
> > especially by the sharp distinction of money as ''means of
> > circulation'' ("Zirkulationsmittel) and ''means of payment''
> > (Zahlungsmittel).
> >
> > It is through the developments of value forms itself that the growth
> > imperative becomes so powerful: Whilst in "means of circulation" money
> > is a temporary phase in the metamorphosis of commodities, in "means of
> > payment" its becoming the dedicated task of production.
> >
> > Value is only real in its forms, and Money, Capital and Interest are
> > the developed forms of value and not something alien or secondary to
> > value. Everything else is pure metaphysics. Value exists in money.
> > Money exists in Capital. Capital exists in productive capital,
> > commercial capital and financial capital. We can only understand these
> > social realities when we understand their value nature.
> >
> > Each new form of value breaks the limitations of the previous form,
> > without ever being able to overcome the basic limitation of value,
> > that it only exists as a relation of concrete work to a social
> > standard of productivity that the concrete work needs to fulfill and
> > its product needs to represent. (And of course, this means that value
> > is a self-negating structure, a social anti-pattern, because each
> > action or attempt of value-creation is challenging the value-nature of
> > everything else)
> >
> > In this respect interest is nothing secondary but really the breaking
> > of the limitation of a given capitals size that endangers this task,
> > allowing for boundless accumulation to become primary task and
> > constraint of social production.
> >
> > Franz
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>


-- 
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http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI

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