[p2p-research] ecovillages and communities : which ones are interested in "open p2p" ?

Tue Sep 15 09:13:46 CEST 2009

Technology should be an invitation, not an obligation; and it's a tool and a
means, not an end in itself. And though p2p technology is a fantastic
enabler, it's possible to initiate p2p dynamics without even the technology
... we should not be seen as tech-peddlers to those with legitimate concerns
about technology ...

mediated communications can be a detriment to real human communication, but
it is also possible to have a very aware usage of technology as a tool to
unite people,

Luddites are much maligned and they lost the war, but the english craft
communities had legitimate concerns about the destruction of their
livelihoods by textile and other machineries

Michel

On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 8:47 PM, Dante-Gabryell Monson <
dante.monson at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks for the reply Nathan !
>
> very interesting !
>
> I do indeed feel the same resistance towards " technology " in some
> intentional communities I visited ,
> except for "geek" coworking spaces : hacklabs, certain art residencies
> focused on new media, and perhaps... university towns and campuses ? could
> those be defined as IC's ?
>
> Another echo I seem to get related to the perception of technology ( and of
> computers and the internet ) in certain intentional communities is that it
> brings us further away from authentic connections with ourselves and with
> nature  , that it brings us further from authentic connections with the
> other persons, and that it can affect our energy flows negatively.
> ( so a reference to more spiritual and health related aspects )
>
> I also have the feeling that , in some cases, at least what concerns
> computers and the internet, it may be perceived as "consumption" and as some
> kind of laziness,
>
> setting "hard physical work" as some "more real" work... ( ? )
>
> Although this applies perhaps more to a way of thinking of a few
> individuals that seemed to be mostly in some of the more isolated , more
> conservative ic's ... ?
>
> But perhaps there is still a difference in perception depending on "what
> kind" of technology.
>
> I have the feeling indeed that the "craftmanship" and "shared collaborative
> passionnate creative" spirit seems to be a interesting approach to possibly
> share libre p2p memes accross the whole spectrum going from Neo-Luddite to
> Transhuman...
>
>
> And perhaps it also depends "for what kind of work" the technologies are
> used.
> In some communities, I feel that there is a feeling of perceiving excess
> investment in communication, including through the use of ICT's, as a loss
> of time compared to forms of work that may seem to be more directly related
> to more tangible forms of production.
>
> Although in the case of intentional communities that receive a substantial
> part of their income through offering venues for conferences, or for
> courses, there seems to be more of an understanding of investing time into
> communication by using information technologies as to promote the
> subsistence of the intentional community ?
>
> It would be interesting to receive more opinions from people within our
> networks that might have experience with a diversity of IC's...
>
> I am personally also interested in contributing to the spread of p2p memes
> that support active involvement in developing solutions to counter
> artificial scarcity,
> and not merely in fighting scarcity,
> hence staying connected to global communication channels and the potential
> of global emergence. I guess this is kind of part of the "global village"
> concept.
>
> I do find the Luddite ( vs Transhuman ? ) conversation interesting...
>
> I feel like finishing this mail with a link Paul shared :
>
> http://www.changesurfer.com/Acad/DemocraticTranshumanism.htm
>
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 6:47 AM, Nathan Cravens <knuggy at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Dante,
>> For the uninitiated, when I'm asked 'what I do', I'm now in the habit of
>> saying, 'I help people better care for themselves'. If I were in the East,
>> (and I hope in parts of Europe) I would say, 'I help people care for their
>> families'. (family is a far more interesting and satisfying idea in my
>> opinion, but to say that in the culture that surrounds me presently, this
>> would be considered unpractical or overly dramatic.)
>>
>> Thanks for addressing this topic, Dante. Intentional communities at the
>> surface, seeing that they are an alternative social movement wanting to be a
>> community movement, you might think they would be attracted to p2p; and I
>> believe they are for the most part; but the established language used in
>> these areas are probably the greatest challenge to overcome unless we have
>> viable solutions to show rather than tell.
>>
>> The greatest hurdle in my experience is addressing the topic of
>> technology. If you call it 'technology', in the IC crowd I've lived in for a
>> time, the listening stops. There's a tremendously deep seeded neoluddite
>> sentiment (like that professed by the romantic and very persuasive prose of
>> Kirkpatrick Sale) that I believe is a great detriment to the autonomy these
>> groups would like to establish.  The issue is not that technology is bad,
>> but that technology in this view is confused with mass production, only one
>> general approach to tool and object manipulation, which is not bad in
>> itself, but it is bad if you want to 'earn money in the workforce'. This
>> means I'd like to see all existing jobs fully automated, just like a
>> majority shareholder of a company, but the difference between the
>> shareholder and I is that I want to see this further decay the economic
>> system that surfaced the mass model so that more people see the need to
>> develop something better 'underneath'; and that 'better' is a "commons
>> floor" which will rise to better production standards than mass production
>> as development attention is better coordinated; after the vision is better
>> defined: broken into easy to comprehend developmental parts (first for key
>> developers that can better establish in more detail what must be done; then
>> presented for users to do for themselves without a developer hierarchy),
>> assembled, and distributed.
>>
>> My views may be considered post-luddite, (though I seem to have skipped
>> the luddite phase ;p) as I believe craft production (or personal fabrication
>> in contemporary terms) is the most sincere or meaningful work, but I
>> understand the benefit in having more advanced techniques that may include
>> having a desktop device produce the entire product, especially if it for
>> someone else, like the elderly, that may not be able to produce or deliver
>> needed items for themselves when I or anyone else cannot possibly produce or
>> deliver what everyone needs with simple hand tools. That may be practical in
>> smaller 300-600 village settings with the right people, but not for large
>> urban areas where abilities are more difficult to match a variety of needs.
>>
>>
>> Its also important any p2p advocate be very sensitive to the established
>> culture or spiritual beliefs; and try to understand them; and address the
>> practices members of the group care to better meet or exceed. After the
>> advocate is well established in the community then talk of other areas may
>> be appropriate. (The term 'p2p colonialist' comes to mind... ;p We're the
>> GOOD colonialists! ;p I would only jest on this if no other approach
>> worked.)
>>
>> Our foundation needs to place a fairly rigorous amount of attention toward
>> describing how p2p technology differs from mass production technology. P2P
>> advocacy ensures self sufficiency by sharing knowledge and other resources
>> in commons. Demonstrating good technologies like mesh network communications
>> and solar power energy devices (for example) easy to personally fabricate
>> and maintain by the community itself will go a long way in influencing this
>> very important movement and potential partner.
>>
>>
>> Nathan
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 12:02 PM, Dante-Gabryell Monson <
>> dante.monson at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I ask myself : Which existing ecovillages would identify to " p2p meme"
>>> approaches ,
>>> or be interested in integrating such memes ?
>>>
>>> more in message below...
>>>
>>> Cordially,
>>> Dante
>>> http://hitchwiki.org/en/Dante
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 4:33 PM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Dante,
>>>>
>>>> interesting questions, but I´m not able to answer them, ecovillages is
>>>> not something I have monitored at all.
>>>>
>>>> I would forward the question the whole p2p list, with cc to franz
>>>> nahrada and possible try the global village list,
>>>>
>>>> Michel
>>>>
>>>> On 9/12/09, Dante-Gabryell Monson <dante.monson at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> > Hi Michel , Hi Nathan,
>>>> >
>>>> > This morning I am attempting to have a overview and reflect on
>>>> emergent
>>>> > community cultures,
>>>> > what symbolical framework they may use, based on what heritage ?
>>>> >
>>>> > I am also reflecting on the relations between them, and on the
>>>> potential
>>>> > introduction of p2p memes into their narratives.
>>>> >
>>>> > For example, in some ecovillages in europe, there seems to some form
>>>> of
>>>> > revival using neo-paganism,
>>>> > in some cases also combined to tibetan Buddhism ( itself also based on
>>>> > paganism ? ) ,
>>>> > or christian influences, etc
>>>> >
>>>> > Some of these communities are older and already well established ,
>>>> > such as the Anthroposophic movement
>>>> >
>>>> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthroposophy
>>>> >
>>>> > and also developed a number of communities / villages all over the
>>>> world
>>>> >
>>>> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camphill_movement
>>>> >
>>>> > which could correspond to some of the of various "ecovillage"
>>>> definitions I
>>>> > found on the net such as
>>>> >
>>>> > http://www.ecovillagenews.org/wiki/index.php/What_is_an_Ecovillage%3F
>>>> >
>>>> > http://gen.ecovillage.org/about/wiaev.php
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > I ask myself : what do other "ecovillage listings" such as this one
>>>> >
>>>> > http://www.ecovillage.org/php/public/evdir/evsearch.php?lg=1
>>>> >
>>>> > or this one
>>>> >
>>>> > http://directory.ic.org/records/ecovillages.php
>>>> >
>>>> > see as common features between such communities, sharing a common
>>>> > definition
>>>> > ?
>>>> > sharing common or divergent cultural, political, economic, etc
>>>> approaches ?
>>>> >
>>>> > Which communities and ecovillages would identify to "p2p meme"
>>>> approaches ,
>>>> > or be interested in integrating such p2p memes ?
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Work: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University -
>>>> Research: http://www.dpu.ac.th/dpuic/info/Research.html - Think thank:
>>>> http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>>>>
>>>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  -
>>>> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>>>>
>>>> Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
>>>> http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
>>>>
>>>> Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
>>>> http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>
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-- 
Work: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University - Research:
http://www.dpu.ac.th/dpuic/info/Research.html - Think thank:
http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI

P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net

Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org

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