[p2p-research] decentralizing open source bike production?

[Samuel Rose]

  > Patrick's solution to me is legitimate, but not preferred as it instantiates
> a dominion of consumers over producers, something I don't see myself as
> appropriate, but in any case, if it's a good solution, it's time to try it
> out, even in only one case. Millions of people right now are creating social
> businesses, coops, and all kinds of new enterpreneurial vehicles, this could
> be one of them,
>


The biggest problem that I can see is that people will not allow it to
happen. The people who are expected to be subjugated will not accept
their role. And, why should they?




> Michel
>
> On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 7:08 AM, Samuel Rose <samuel.rose at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Patrick wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 10:36 AM, Samuel Rose<samuel.rose at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> I
>> >> many easily modifiable bicycle design cores (plus a standard way to
>> > >contribute more cores) that people can download and fabricate
>>
>>
>> >Fabricate?  What the hell does that mean?  I don't have access to the
>> >Physical Sources required for fabrication!
>>
>> >How are we, the people supposed to fabricate without land, buildings,
>> >tools, etc.?  That is the question the article is asking.
>>
>> >How can you (and so many others on these lists) so readily brush aside
>> >the difficulty of *instantiating* these designs?
>>
>> >We, the people do not have the Physical Sources required for
>> > 'fabrication'.
>>
>> >Sure design is important.  But that is only a (very small) part of the
>> > problem.
>>
>> >The complexity of designing a bicycle is on the verge of trivial.
>>
>> >The primary difficulty is access to the mass, time, space and energy
>> required to 'host' that design in physical reality.
>>
>> >Most people on these lists seem to think we will fix this in the
>> >future through rep-rap robots.  Quit dreaming.
>>
>> I think you are are misinterpreting what is being discussed
>>
>> Actually, I ran out of time, but was going to follow up my last email
>> by stating that efforts to get people the means of production in the
>> places that the open source bike project wants to serve seem to me to
>> be a higher priority than the design of bikes themselves.
>>
>> Flexible fabrication technology will be a key way to bring the means
>> of production to people. This is already emerging now.
>>
>> This technology does exist. It is possible for them to produce
>> biofuel, utilize wind and solar power, and create and deploy low cost
>> machines that can fabricate not just bicycles, but many things that
>> they might need. i agree with you, patrick, that this seems to be a
>> higher priority in the grand scheme of things.
>>
>> Actually, design and the means to produce the designs are tightly coupled.
>>
>> Anyway, you raise a good point. Impoverished people could really
>> benefit from access to the means to produce food, energy, and the
>> things they need for physiological and psychological survival.
>>
>> Patrick, you've been communicating this message to me for quite at
>> least a couple of years now, and your solution seems to me to be sound
>> in logic, but impossible to convince the critical mass of people to
>> adopt and participate in what you are proposing.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> --
>> Sam Rose
>> Social Synergy
>> Tel:+1(517) 639-1552
>> Cel: +1-(517)-974-6451
>> skype: samuelrose
>> email: samuel.rose at gmail.com
>> http://socialsynergyweb.com
>> http://socialsynergyweb.org/culturing
>> http://flowsbook.panarchy.com/
>> http://socialmediaclassroom.com
>> http://localfoodsystems.org
>> http://notanemployee.net
>> http://communitywiki.org
>>
>> "The universe is not required to be in perfect harmony with human
>> ambition." - Carl Sagan
>>
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>
>
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-- 
-- 
Sam Rose
Social Synergy
Tel:+1(517) 639-1552
Cel: +1-(517)-974-6451
skype: samuelrose
email: samuel.rose at gmail.com
http://socialsynergyweb.com
http://socialsynergyweb.org/culturing
http://flowsbook.panarchy.com/
http://socialmediaclassroom.com
http://localfoodsystems.org
http://notanemployee.net
http://communitywiki.org

"The universe is not required to be in perfect harmony with human
ambition." - Carl Sagan