[p2p-research] Metacurrency

[Samuel Rose]

On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 6:34 PM, Nathan Cravens <knuggy at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Sam,
> This is excellent:
> ""
> The idea that the medium of activity dictates the "currency". Paul
> uses the example of bittorrent: For users of bittorrent, the currency
> of exchange is literally the "bit". You have to upload to download,
> and you can upload more now, which will let you download more later
> (thus creating a surplus within the whole system). These types of
> exchanges are not "market" exchanges, like buying and selling. They
> are commons-based exchanges, where participants have feedback about
> how they are taking from and contributing to the common-pool resource
> of bandwidth in the bittorrent system... Read More
>
> There are also similar commons-based webs of exchanges between people
> and natural systems that can follow a "code", and the "code" need not
> be like a script on a computer.
>
> Instead it can be more like an agent based model, where you follow
> simple rules about how you act within a system. Achievement of
> creating a balance between yourself and the system will usually
> consist of what you take from system, and what you put back in.
>
> The argument that Paul and I make is that you can also look at your
> yourself as a fractal micro-cosm of the larger system you are a part
> of. You can look at where you are getting inputs from, and where your
> outputs go to. What you take in can be from the "waste" of someone
> else ("waste equals food"), what you output could be the basis of raw
> ... Read Morematerial for other's "input". These are the simple rules,
> the "code" for what I call a "wealth generating ecology" (wealth =
> other kinds of wealth beyond just money) a system that can generate
> surplus consistently even for one person, and can exponentially
> generate surplus as more people enter the system. The catch is that
> most of the resources end up being voluntarily or systematically
> co-managed as a "commons": a resource that everyone who uses
> recognizes as something that no one user fully owns, and so must be
> co-governed somehow by users. (resource is not just physical object,
> can be the combined time and attention of people, etc)
> ""
> You are describing how to manage a free use commons once a financial commons
> is no longer required?


This model is applicable now. Over time, you may reach a point where a
financial commons is no longer required. In some parts of human
problem solving,  a financial commons is not required even now.



> A financial commons is introduced when a society clearly cannot care for
> themselves based on a work requirement to participate in a market previously
> generated by financial capital. Japan most severely needs to adopt this
> approach to prevent further the exclusionary tactics such as racial and
> national superiority. I look forward to working with Dante and his Japanese
> friend in addressing Japan's issues, as they seem to need the approaches
> Paul Fernhout and I describe more than any other industrialized nation at
> the moment.
> Will you write a detailed description with Paul Hartzog of this
> monetary/materials system for the p2p blog? We can then discuss it in more
> detail in November. What you describe to me sounds more like a
> "sub-currency" than "meta," but that may just be an issue of semantics. I
> view what you describe as a way to preserve a free use commons from
> reverting to a financial commons, or worse, financial capital.
>

There are more issues than just economic/financial in relation to
commons. First and foremost, commons must be recognized as such by
humans who are connected with it. If people cannot recognize a
resource as a commons, then they will tend to manage it in a way that
is different from those methods of commons governance recognized by
Elinor Ostrum and others doing similar work.

People may simply lack the literacy of what a commons is, or may be
operating with a worldview that is opposed to participating in the
management of resources in commons-based ways. or, in some cases (like
land for instance) there is a legal enforcement that prevents it from
being recognized as a commons

Land may be one of the last resources to widely transition away from
being widely enclosed.


I think the starting place, the place to begin (to transition towards
tranformation) is where we are at now. Marshall McLuhan knew this:


"Persons grouped around a fire or candle for warmth or light are less
able to pursue independent thoughts, or even tasks, than people
supplied with electric light. In the same way, the social and
educational patterns latent in automation are those of self-employment
and artistic autonomy. "

If we can help people (anywhere in the world) meet basic survival
needs in commons and P2P ways, then we can create a pathway for more
advanced evolution.



> Nathan
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 10, 2009 at 7:59 AM, Samuel Rose <samuel.rose at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Gerry, I am interested in the metacurrency event. My own interest lies
>> in creating a set of simple open standards around alternative
>> currencies. My interest is that these simple standards be adoptable
>> across many different web applications.
>>
>> Everyone keeps pointing me to the metacurrency project, and I keep
>> repeating that metacurrency project does not have any published simple
>> standard that I can adopt. They do have examples, but they are not
>> complete, and do not constitute a replicable body of work. Plus, in my
>> opinion, metacurrency approach is overly complicated.
>>
>> I also see something missing from metacurrency.org, and that is that
>> "currency" can depend on the ecology/medium. This is different than
>> traditional currency, and allows "money" to be tied to what is being
>> exchanged within the system.
>>
>> I talked with Paul Hartzog in Ann Arbor about something similar recently:
>>
>> The idea that the medium of activity dictates the "currency". Paul
>> uses the example of bittorrent: For users of bittorrent, the currency
>> of exchange is literally the "bit". You have to upload to download,
>> and you can upload more now, which will let you download more later
>> (thus creating a surplus within the whole system). These types of
>> exchanges are not "market" exchanges, like buying and selling. They
>> are commons-based exchanges, where participants have feedback about
>> how they are taking from and contributing to the common-pool resource
>> of bandwidth in the bittorrent system... Read More
>>
>> There are also similar commons-based webs of exchanges between people
>> and natural systems that can follow a "code", and the "code" need not
>> be like a script on a computer.
>>
>> Instead it can be more like an agent based model, where you follow
>> simple rules about how you act within a system. Achievement of
>> creating a balance between yourself and the system will usually
>> consist of what you take from system, and what you put back in.
>>
>> The argument that Paul and I make is that you can also look at your
>> yourself as a fractal micro-cosm of the larger system you are a part
>> of. You can look at where you are getting inputs from, and where your
>> outputs go to. What you take in can be from the "waste" of someone
>> else ("waste equals food"), what you output could be the basis of raw
>> ... Read Morematerial for other's "input". These are the simple rules,
>> the "code" for what I call a "wealth generating ecology" (wealth =
>> other kinds of wealth beyond just money) a system that can generate
>> surplus consistently even for one person, and can exponentially
>> generate surplus as more people enter the system. The catch is that
>> most of the resources end up being voluntarily or systematically
>> co-managed as a "commons": a resource that everyone who uses
>> recognizes as something that no one user fully owns, and so must be
>> co-governed somehow by users. (resource is not just physical object,
>> can be the combined time and attention of people, etc)
>>
>> (Gerry: copied this to p2p research list, I feel that people there
>> would be interested in this exchange. I clipped off your personal
>> notes to me)
>>
>>
>> --
>> --
>> Sam Rose
>> Social Synergy
>> Tel:+1(517) 639-1552
>> Cel: +1-(517)-974-6451
>> skype: samuelrose
>> email: samuel.rose at gmail.com
>> http://socialsynergyweb.com
>> http://socialsynergyweb.org/culturing
>> http://flowsbook.panarchy.com/
>> http://socialmediaclassroom.com
>> http://localfoodsystems.org
>> http://notanemployee.net
>> http://communitywiki.org
>>
>> "The universe is not required to be in perfect harmony with human
>> ambition." - Carl Sagan
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>
>



-- 
-- 
Sam Rose
Social Synergy
Tel:+1(517) 639-1552
Cel: +1-(517)-974-6451
skype: samuelrose
email: samuel.rose at gmail.com
http://socialsynergyweb.com
http://socialsynergyweb.org/culturing
http://flowsbook.panarchy.com/
http://socialmediaclassroom.com
http://localfoodsystems.org
http://notanemployee.net
http://communitywiki.org

"The universe is not required to be in perfect harmony with human
ambition." - Carl Sagan