[p2p-research] gotta read this

Mon Oct 5 07:54:57 CEST 2009

hi Ryan,

please note, I'm not picking on you or the U.S., all countries have flaws
and mythologies <g>

ok, here's the challenge to the notion that the US has pioneered the welfare
state ...

in this historical overview, the US is not even mentioned:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_state

(so my take is: the US was relatively late in the game ... this doesn't take
away the merit of Roosevelt and the New Deal .. it's just not as pioneering
...)

Modern welfare states developed through a gradual process beginning in the
late 19th century and continuing through the 20th. They differed from
previous schemes of poverty relief due to their relatively universal
coverage. The development of social
insurance<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_insurance>in
Germany <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany> under
Bismarck<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_von_Bismarck>was
particularly influential. Some schemes, like those in
Scandinavia <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavia>, were based largely
in the development of autonomous, mutualist provision of benefits. Others
were founded on state provision. The term was not, however, applied to all
states offering social protection. The sociologist T.H.
Marshall<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Humphrey_Marshall>identified
the welfare state as a distinctive combination of
democracy <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy>,
welfare<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_welfare>and
capitalism <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism>. Examples of early
welfare states in the modern world are
Germany<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany>,
all of the Nordic Countries <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_Countries>,
the Netherlands <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands>,
Australia<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia>,
Uruguay <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uruguay> and New
Zealand<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand>and the United
Kingdom <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom> in the 1930s.

On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 6:56 AM, Ryan Lanham <rlanham1963 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Michel,
>
> I trust I am one your friends, and I am an American, so I'll venture a
> response.
>
> Most all of it is hard to argue.  I don't know what to think either.  It is
> unprecedented, frustrating and dark times for a country I love very much.
>
> On the other hand, not many nations can be as self critical and divided and
> still carry on business fairly well not only for ourselves but for the world
> around us.  When it comes to innovation, technological and social, when it
> comes to regulation and a general bias for justice--though often confused by
> markets, religions, prejudices and ignorance of various forms, I'm still
> very proud of my country.
>
> We have our marriage disputes on the front porch, it's true.  Maybe that's
> a good thing for the world. I'm often embarrassed about American foibles; I
> personally feel no embarrassment about the country in comparison to any
> other.
>
> People who understand the US know that Vermont is utterly different from
> Oklahoma which is entirely different from Oregon, Florida or Utah.  We speak
> the same language.  Have similar cultural institutions and travel/relocate
> freely, but other than that, the nation is really more comparable to a
> continent--like Europe.  State laws can differ significantly.  State
> cultures are dramatically different...my father used to say the widest river
> in the world is the Ohio which separates the northern and industrial State
> of Ohio from a more southern and rural Kentucky.  Feuds about local college
> sports teams, high schools, etc. can be sharply cut at a county, state or
> city line.  Our civil war was fought (in principle) for the freedom of a
> subject people--no other in world history has been.
>
> In some ways Europe is more homogeneous than the US.  The US deals with
> racial and social mixtures that almost no one else matches...maybe Brazil or
> Argentina, or parts of the UK like London, or Paris.  We have vastly more
> immigrants than any other nation.  In general, our citizenship is the most
> desired by the broadest numbers and diversities of people.
>
> We grant much of the world's aid.  We shepherd the UN, the World Bank, the
> IMF--sometimes poorly, but overall, no one trusts anybody else.  Our troops
> are often the first to stand in front of evil--though some would say we
> misinterpret it, and I would agree with them.  We didn't invent the WWW, but
> we did build the Internet, built the firms that made it possible, and
> experimented on ourselves with the social impacts--like the death of
> newspapers.  We delivered cable TV, destroyed our own nationalized phone
> network first, built and shattered several international and national
> transportation systems, started the Creative Commons and GNU project, and
> absorbed graduate students from the whole world into our universities--to
> our own advantage sometimes, but not nearly so much as what we have
> transferred.
>
> With Britain, we pioneered the social welfare safety net and fought the way
> out of the Great Depression without focus on war, socialism, fascism or
> colonialism.
>
> I am told by Japanese that they no longer come to the US because there is
> nothing for them to learn from us.  Perhaps.  But we still go to Japan to
> teach...and China and Korea, etc.  And we open our systems to them.  Never
> have I much seen an invitation from the Japanese to understand their
> advances and approaches.
>
> In my graduate program there were more students from abroad than
> Americans.  Can any European or Asian institute claim that?  We took the
> lead out gas when it still choked you in Berlin, Paris or London.  We made
> jet engines quieter.  We gave GIS to the world...something Europe is gearing
> up to copy soon...we've offered it to everyone for 20 years.  We built an
> unprecedented and relatively open research network and publication system
> including medical research, and we helped rebuild those who attacked   Our
> farm, seed and fertilizer technologies have fed the world.
>
> Now it would be easy to build a similar list of US faults and failings.  We
> pollute far more, etc.  But when I look at the colonial world, the world of
> empires and world wars, I see nothing for Europe to feel joy about and much
> to feel shame over.  When I look at communism, I cannot esteem Russia or
> China much.  I do not see sharing, honest and often selfless aid, or
> legitimate and open self-criticism.  America is deeply flawed.  Clearly.
>
> So, as an American, I am hoping things get better for us.  But I think it
> would be a twisted non-American who would wish the US ill during these
> times. We have our moments of arrogance and ignorance both, but who would
> you trust more as a dominant power? And even if there were no dominant
> power, how long would it take for the EU to create the sorts of social,
> business, political, legal and technological innovations we take as
> commonplace from the US?  Losing that engine of innovation cannot be a gain
> for the planet.  Do any of us feel good about China being the leader in
> renewables research?  No one would have such doubts about the US.  So the
> news isn't all bad.
>
> Ryan Lanham
>
>
>   On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 5:50 PM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>>  I feel you have to read this:
>> http://www.counterpunch.com/green09182009.html
>>
>> and would love reactions from our American friends,
>>
>> Michel
>>
>> --
>> Work: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University - Research:
>> http://www.dpu.ac.th/dpuic/info/Research.html - Think thank:
>> http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
> --
> Ryan Lanham
> rlanham1963 at gmail.com
> Facebook: Ryan_Lanham
> P.O. Box 633
> Grand Cayman, KY1-1303
> Cayman Islands
> (345) 916-1712
>
>
>
>

-- 
Work: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University - Research:
http://www.dpu.ac.th/dpuic/info/Research.html - Think thank:
http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI

P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net

Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
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