[p2p-research] excellent contribution on flow money byMartienvan Steenbergen

[Wittel, Andreas]

Hi Martien,

 

Yes I have read your suggestion regarding the VAX standard. You would
measure labour in time. One hour spend working is valued with x, and 2
hours with 2 times x. This would be a far better system than the one we
have today, but again, it would not be a fair system imo. This system
would not take into account the quality of labour. Some people might be
more focused and more productive, and get things done quicker. If they
work less hours, they would get punished.

Also I think this VAX standard would contradict what you suggest later
in your response, that it is ok to mesh work with leisure. How do you
want to measure the hours then?

I remain convinced that Toni Negri is spot on saying that the value of
labour has become immeasureable (affective work and conceptual work will
always escape 'objective' forms of quantification. Any monetary system
would be based on the idea of quantification, thus I don't have much
hope that alternative monetary systems would get us very far.

I'd be interested in thinking about something else. Could we imagine an
economic system that leaves this form of measuring behind? A system
where 10 sacks of wheat do not have to returned exactly with 10 sacks? A
system of producing, contributing, sharing, and using without absolute
forms of measurement? This would have to be based on trust, on the trust
that most people are more interested in making the commons works than
abusing it.

 

Andreas

 

 

 

Have you read my previous suggestion regarding the VAX 11/780 standard
for MIPS? In that general direction.



 

	

	> 

	>  > The problem is that there is no just way to

	>  > measure the value of individual labour.

	> 

	>  It's about time we put some thought and work to that, then.

	 

	Here we disagree: IMO you can think about this problem as much
as you want, the value of labour is beyond measure. Qualities cannot be
transferred in an objective way into quantities. Different people value
different perceptions. One football fanatic might argue that football
stars deserve to earn what they do. Another one might argue they should
earn significantly less, but still more than a bin man. And someone with
no interest in football might argue the labour of a bin man has higher
value (as it is socially relevant labour) than the labour of a football
star.

 

So it's whatever someone wants to pay for it, or can afford. I agree. If
you can pay the price, than you are also able to deliver value to others
(your employer?) to be able to afford it. There must be a dynamic
balance between what you consume and produce. 'You' in this case scales
from individual to large companies or even countries.





 

	

	If we cant measure the quality of labour, could we find a way
out measuring the quantity of labour, that is the hours and days we
spend working? Again this does not work. It is increasingly impossible
to separate work from leisure, not just for artist but for most people.

 

	Time that we meshed work and leisure together. That work is
actually something that you do with pleasure because it matches your
talents and passions, and that it helps your self-expression and
authenticity. Our current monetary systems enslaves the majority of
people because they have to bring up the ever growing interest and
shortage of money. It's a trait of the system.
	
	

	 


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