[p2p-research] excellent contribution on flow money by Martien van Steenbergen

[Martien van Steenbergen]

Ryan,

On 29 May 2009, at 02:35 , Ryan Lanham wrote:

> This all sounds good, Martien.  I am onboard for tests and  
> evaluations so long as the people are ultimately in charge and the  
> system isn't coercive.  It sounds like we agree on all that.

Cool.

> So, no fears from me.  When the words "radical" and "revolutionary"  
> start getting thrown around, I think there is justifiable concern in  
> the world that some minority is going to impose its ideal of  
> morality on a larger group in the name of "justice" or "equality."

I can imagine that, yes. Radical and revolutionary are not a goal or  
intention. They're more consequences of the acceptance and spread of a  
new system. I mean, de CD was radical and revolutionary, compared with  
vinyl. So was the first Web. Remember Mosaic?

I expect a 2nd order change (systemic) rather than a bunch of 1st  
order changes (incremental). It's almost inevitable. Complexity  
science supports that.

Take an hourglass. When the flowing sand forms a pile, zillions of  
grains simply roll down hill, and you'll see many small ‘avalanches  
and every now and then a mid-sized one, changing the ‘landscape’ of  
the growing pile as they happen. Then, suddenly, a real landslide,  
changing the ‘landscape’ all together. I have the feeling that we're  
building up to such a landslide in our economy.

> I have my doubts your monetary system will win over supporters as a  
> sole approach
> to money,

So do I and it's not my intention to have ‘my’ monetary system win as  
a sole apporach. In fact I'm no fan of a ‘sole’ approach, I'm a fan of  
an eclectic, open holacratic approach with evolution built in.

I'm just exploring all this and picking pearls (patterns: solutions to  
recurring desires/problems in a certain context) from all that is out  
there so something new and better can unfold. It doesn't feel like  
‘my’ monetary system and that's also not my intention.

It must be be ‘our’ monetary system in order to work, keeping the  
things that work, replacing the things that are counterproductive with  
better ones and creating new things that further embellish it. All for  
the greater good and by consent.

I'll elaborate some more on this when answering Michel's question on  
the need for plural systems.

> but the ideas are fascinating and appear original to me.

Thank you, but I feel that as too much honour. I stand on the shoulder  
of giants like Gessel, Keynes, Lietaer, Van Arkel, Alexander, Kelly,  
and many many others. Almost everything I wrote has been written and  
implemented elsewhere. The only new thing that I have not seen  
anywhere else is the concept of dynamic trustwidth.

>   I hope you will keep us apprised of the details as they develop.

Sure will, because the individuals on this channel give very valuable  
feedback.

> How would you qualify the characteristics of an ideal test site?

One million users at least. But we could start out small. Building  
some concepts into Second Life would be a great start. Or a next  
version of twollars perhaps?

>   You talked about size of population, what else would be involved?

Well, I'd like to do an experiment in real life. I've written up a  
concept where such a monetary system is used in a social lottery kind  
of way.

Highlights:
register on game website; this opens your account
everyone starts at zero
earn points by helping others (e.g. in your neighbourhood): if you  
help someone, the other just rewards you with points: your balance  
goes up, the other one goes down by the same amount (negative balance  
is okay; just means you need to contribute); please note that the  
amount of points is not the goal!
largest trustwidths win daily, weekly, four-weekly and quarterly prizes
grand finale in week 13; first prize €13M.
trustwidth grows whenever your balance touches zero, with turnover as  
parameter (higher turnover increase trustwidth more)
trustwidth decays over time (so keep busy helping others to maintain it)
game has rules built-in that prevent gaming the system, of course
e-bay-like marketplace to match demand-supply
might also include rules that favour local services over long distance  
ones (to reduce travel and to foster community building)
sponsored by large national companies and the media; so a lot of  
attention
1 million daily players
to play for a day pay €1
13 week game (one quarter): total fund of €91M for development,  
operation and prizes
significant prizes every week; €1000 and up
extensive coverage on rtv; weekly tv-show on prime time celebrating  
winners; good for marketing, sponsoring, etc. very social, sustaiable,  
etc.
has some traits of a lottery or insurance (many contribute a small  
amount for large prizes/cost for a few), but, unlike real lotteries,  
you are in complete control of your chances of winning (and so is  
everyone else; that's what makes it a fair and sportive competition)
all software used and or developed is open source
would love to us contactless devices (RFID?) as wallet; also mobile  
phone as wallets; yet all data have redundant copies floating around  
on the net; so you don't lose your data or account when you lose your  
device.

> Sri Lanka tries interesting things...very vibrant open source  
> community.

Interesting. Didn't know that. Will explore.

Succes en plezier,

Martien.
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