[p2p-research] excellent contribution on flow money by Martien van Steenbergen

[Martien van Steenbergen]

On 26 May 2009, at 17:11 , Dmytri Kleiner wrote:

> On Tue, 26 May 2009, Ryan Lanham wrote:
>
>> Second, you say we made the rules for money once, we can remake  
>> them again...This I am
>> having trouble with.  When did we "make" the rules for money?  Is  
>> it not a more
>> spontaneous self-ordering ecosystem?   There were dozens of  
>> currencies in the Colonial
>> US plus Sterling plus Spanish money, etc.  Money happens.
>
>
> As I understand it, Money as in state-issued legal tender originated  
> for
> the purposes of exacting tribute in ancient times, and did not  
> become a
> common means of market exchange until the industrial revolution.
>
> Previously, even though money was known and available, goods where  
> always traded primarly on-account, kin-communal/gift, or barter, as  
> continues in many parts of the world today where money is scarce.
>
> The adoption of money as a means of market exchange was imposed by the
> state as a part of the imposition of capitalist social relations.
>
> For more info see Kieth Hart, Glyn Davis, etc.
>
> Producing, sharing and trading happens, Money is imposed by state  
> violence.

Please be more specific. I agree that our current money system is  
imposed by state violence, and the state, in turn, by a small number  
of foxy businessmen.

I find the distinction between ‘money’ and ‘money system’ crucial in  
these kind of conversations. Money is not bad, it's the system  
designed for it that is (or isn't).

People like Gessel (Free Money or Vrijgeld in Dutch) en Keynes (ICU/ 
Bancor) already proposed and designed better monetary systems, but  
they we silently of violently killed in the process.

We get another opportunity to move swift and cunning and seed the  
world with viable alternatives. Let's move on.

> As for "hoarding," I highly recomend the essay Robinson Crusue by  
> Sylvio Gessel

As for hoarding, there are monetary systems that simply do not know  
the concept of hoarding. Hoarding is simply not possible. The system  
can only be used for payments, for measuring value, just like  
centimeters.

Our current monetary system has two principal functions: 1) a means to  
pay; and 2) a means to save.

The ability to save money in combination with compound positive  
interest is what's killing it (and us and our planet).

Remove the saving function, and hoarding simply becomes impossible and  
the focus, and therefore our behaviour, redirects to balance ‘import’  
and ‘export’, to balance want we consume and what we produce (or value  
we create).

Flip the interest sign from plus to minus (flow money), and we  
suddenly focus on long-term and sustainability instead of short-term  
profits at the cost of others and scarce planetary resources.

Anyone skilled on programming NetLogo? We can create a number of  
stunning and eye-opening simulations that prove these claims.

> Here is the Manga version:
>
> http://www.appropriate-economics.org/ebooks/crusoe/ROBDE_01.htm

Nice. Thanks!

Succes en plezier,

Martien.