[p2p-research] Peer Governance of This List

Mon May 25 09:34:16 CEST 2009

Hi Matt,

Some background, as requ3sted, in reverse chronological order

This list was created by Ned Rossiter after Andreas Wittel's Peer Production
workshop meeting in Nottingham in November 2007 .. About 2 months ago, he
quit as listmaster, and the settings he choose went to Kevin Carson and Ryan
Lanaham for review. I have no details about what they changed.

Ning was set up by Joseph Davies Coates, but is administratively maintained
by me.

Tne blog was set up by James Burke, who is admin and gives out pw/id's
usually on my request. I produce 90% of the content, 3-4 items per day. He
pays for the server space.

The wiki was set up by Brice Leblevennec and about 18 months ago, admin was
transferred to James Burke. Since short, it seems a web of trust is
technically operating, i.e. existing members give access to new ones,
before, it was james and I. I produce about 85%, perhaps more, of the
content, from 5 to 25 items per day, depending on my time.

I can easily spent 8 hours a day on this, which was what I did before I
started this job, now I'm down to 4 ... which requires 2 extra hours outside
of the office and 2 times 4 hours on both weekend days.

But to be clear, my work is content oriented and I always forward technical
issues to James, list issues to kevin and ryan, technical ning issues to
joseph ..

There is no formal governance, but I would argue, neither a tyranny of
structurelessness. In fact, inside our resources, the case with Marc was the
first conflict. My conflict with Stefan on Oekonux being a matter external
to the P2P-F.

The P2P-F has a legal structure in the netherlands, with a board and all,
but no real existence so far.

I'd be happy to answer more questions.

On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 11:15 PM, Matt Cooperrider <
mattcooperrider at gmail.com> wrote:

> Michel and Ryan,
>
> Both of your responses have been enlightening.
>
> Ryan, I chuckled at your image of "prissy" types who write with "19th
> Century care" (am I writing that way now?  I just rewrote this email for the
> third time...).  I sometimes forget how deeply I've incorporated the old
> academic ideals of completeness and bibliographic order .  Usually this just
> leads to me feeling guilty about not "keeping up".  Laughing at those ideals
> helps me let go of them.
>
> Michel, I'm also wary of unnecessary governance, and I like your pragmatism
> about the benefits of this list.  If anything, it's most critical that you,
> Michel Bauwens, have easy means to survey this space, since you put in so
> much effort to curate the P2P information commons.
>
> All that said, I'd still be interested to see the existing governance
> structures of this list, and perhaps the blog and the wiki as well,
> documented so that they are available for examiniation.  Michel, I imagine
> you do an awful lot that we're not aware of an everyday basis to maintain
> the P2P foundation.  Do you have your daily/weekly P2P duties recorded
> anywhere?  Is there an organizational chart of who manages which resource?
> Of who has admin rights and has the power to ban or exclude?
>
> I certainly don't want to build new governance structures unnecessarily.
> Moreover, my interest in these issues is not directly related to recent
> events or particular list issues - I merely saw an opportunity to start a
> discussion.
>
> But if we've learned anything from the transparency movement, it's that you
> don't know what benefits can be achieved until you show the community what's
> going on on the inside.  Even details that seem trivial or obvious can
> generate new insights when documented and shared.
>
> Best,
> Matt
>
>
>
> On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 8:14 AM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Thanks Ryan,
>>
>> I feel pretty much on this issue like on privacy ... I know it is serious,
>> that some people care, and that it is good that they care, but I can't bring
>> myself to make it any priority at all ...
>>
>> Info overload is simply not an issue for me, and this list works fine for
>> me.
>>
>> One amendment perhaps is that we ride the storm, but we choose carefully
>> which one thing to participate a little more,
>>
>> Michel
>>
>>
>> On 5/24/09, Ryan Lanham <rlanham1963 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Michel,
>>>
>>> The overwrought state is a trait of P2P we don't look at with a research
>>> lens.  We all feel we have our mouths on a fire hose trying to drink and
>>> also not drown.  Some try to prettify messages and write with 19th century
>>> care...the sort of skills that got people to academic jobs are not very
>>> suitable to a bim-bam-bing web.  A few mysteriously thrive at all of the
>>> above...Lawrence Lessig, Clay Shirky, for instance...others specialize.
>>>
>>> Forums are diverse and cannot be fully monitored.  We are all using
>>> google search bots or similar plus things like Twine, Diigo, Delicious,
>>> etc.  Your links have always been invaluable to me...but then again, I say
>>> that, and I can't decide why they are of value...it is because they help me
>>> feel like I am coping with the firehose a bit better than most.
>>>
>>> This always comes with the myriad complaints of too little focus, too
>>> much noise, poor signal to noise ratios, etc.  But people still lurk and
>>> sample in such environments.  I think it has something to do with other
>>> things like obesity in the US...where food choices...good and bad, are
>>> everywhere and omnipresent.  People can't cope with choice and
>>> responsibility.
>>>
>>> My own theory is that we need to give up participation in a full sense
>>> and become riders on the storm.  I fear it is particularly hard for those
>>> who struggle with English, because the realistic language for most of the
>>> traffic in the world is English and it appears it will be for a long time.
>>> English is a sloppy language that has many very heterodox forms and no good
>>> policing system.
>>>
>>> Academics tend to hate all this because they have traditionally advanced
>>> exceedingly careful, even prissy types who play with a sentence for 3
>>> hours.  It's all part of P2P...so much more that isn't understood than what
>>> is...
>>>
>>> Ryan Lanham
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 2:19 AM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Matt,
>>>>
>>>> first of all, thanks for your new page,
>>>> http://p2pfoundation.net/Peer_Production_of_Public_Policy
>>>>
>>>> I realize this list is generating some critiques lately ... but I'm
>>>> personally overwhelmed by maintaining the different resources, mainly the
>>>> blog and the wiki ...
>>>>
>>>> Besides from the that, perhaps I'm still benefitting too much from this
>>>> list .... My experience is the following: all email lists are problematic (I
>>>> have trouble keeping up with all of them I'm subscribing too), and the only
>>>> ones that work better (though they don't interest me much), have paid
>>>> moderators such as the Global Solutions system in India (UN development
>>>> lists). This one  here, our own p2p research list, generates a lot of
>>>> response, is consistently interesting to me, but indeed scares people away
>>>> through its volume ...
>>>>
>>>> I'm also weary of adding governance processes when they are not needed
>>>> 'in the moment'. For example, I proposed the due process for Marc as a
>>>> solution to the particular issue, which then could become 'case precedent'
>>>> material in future occasions, but since he did not want to use it, the issue
>>>> has become moot, for now
>>>>
>>>> Another more general issue: for about 3 years, almost every thing we've
>>>> done around p2p-f ws pretty harmonious and constructive; then about 6 weeks
>>>> ago, I got confronted with Stefan's outbursts on Oekonux, then really
>>>> hostile reactions on Znet, and now here Marc's issue. Are these
>>>> coincidences, signs that things are going wrong, or in the best
>>>> interpretation, actually a sign of growth and maturation, a signpost that
>>>> our influence is growing, but therefore also generating more opposition?
>>>> Sometimes I wonder if the issue is not personal, and that perhaps I'm
>>>> unaware of a change in myself, as I have to deal with much more difficult
>>>> life circumstances, now that I had to separate from my warm family
>>>> environment in order to work and feed my family? I don't think so myself,
>>>> but who knows?
>>>>
>>>> I'd be happy to receive any feedback on the recent spates in conflicts
>>>> as well, beyond thinking about any supplementary governance that would be
>>>> needed?
>>>>
>>>> Bear in mind that any supplementary governance needs people to carry it
>>>> out,
>>>>
>>>> Michel
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   On 5/24/09, Matt Cooperrider <mattcooperrider at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>  Hello P2P List,
>>>>>
>>>>> I followed the recent netiquette dispute somewhat.  For my part, I have
>>>>> had trouble keeping up with the list, mainly because it takes so much extra
>>>>> mental effort to draw out the discussions I am interested in from everything
>>>>> else.  I thought about some technical solutions to improve the situation,
>>>>> but I realized that any such move would need to have buy-in from the group
>>>>> to be successful.  That made me think, more generally, that we have a
>>>>> commons here that we could be more actively governing to our mutual
>>>>> benefit.  At the very least it's an opportunity to theorize together in a
>>>>> contained setting that we know intimately.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyone want to take a stab at framing the discussion?
>>>>>
>>>>> Matt
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> http://mudball.net - get your awesome out
>>>>> http://mattcoop.com - about me
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> p2presearch mailing list
>>>>> p2presearch at listcultures.org
>>>>> http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Working at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University -
>>>> http://www.dpu.ac.th/dpuic/info/Research.html -
>>>> http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>>>>
>>>> Volunteering at the P2P Foundation:
>>>> http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net -
>>>> http://p2pfoundation.ning.com
>>>>
>>>> Monitor updates at http://del.icio.us/mbauwens
>>>>
>>>> The work of the P2P Foundation is supported by SHIFTN,
>>>> http://www.shiftn.com/
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> p2presearch mailing list
>>>> p2presearch at listcultures.org
>>>> http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Working at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University -
>> http://www.dpu.ac.th/dpuic/info/Research.html -
>> http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>>
>> Volunteering at the P2P Foundation:
>> http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net -
>> http://p2pfoundation.ning.com
>>
>> Monitor updates at http://del.icio.us/mbauwens
>>
>> The work of the P2P Foundation is supported by SHIFTN,
>> http://www.shiftn.com/
>>
>
>
>
> --
> http://mudball.net - get your awesome out
> http://mattcoop.com - about me
>

-- 
Working at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University -
http://www.dpu.ac.th/dpuic/info/Research.html -
http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI

Volunteering at the P2P Foundation:
http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net -
http://p2pfoundation.ning.com

Monitor updates at http://del.icio.us/mbauwens

The work of the P2P Foundation is supported by SHIFTN,
http://www.shiftn.com/
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