[p2p-research] Netiquette (was: Re: leaving this list)

Thu May 21 06:22:42 CEST 2009

To me, maintaining our individual ways while also cooperating with the
like-minded on projects/ideas of interest works better than subscribing to
common rules. It's not the same as anarchy. Its' the freedom from rules that
don't work for us and that wouldn't hurt anyone for us if we don't follow
them (as others can simply avoid interacting with us when we break those
rules. It's there choice. It's my choice. Choice is key. I don't buy that
abiding by 9and defending) common rules/principles is better than the
freedom to make our own choices.

Choice is very important. The commons does not take choice away. The herd
does. Big difference.

On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 7:09 PM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>wrote:

> We can also try to follow the netiquette rules as a voluntary agreement,
> and let those like Marc who feel strongly against it to continue in what
> works for them. Still, if more people follow that agreement, it would have
> beneficial effects anyway.
>
> I have started cutting out long threads, which is not helped by Google
> hiding them,
>
> Michel
>
> On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 8:44 AM, marc fawzi <marc.fawzi at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Its not me first. That would be immoral. But it is me that I am
>> responsible for. I am not responsible for what the herd does.
>>
>> I have a certain way of managing discussion threads and that way works
>> for me. The herd can choose to filter me out and so can anyone within
>> the herd. Why should the herd want me to accomodate it and forget
>> about my need? When the herd can accomodate itself by filtering me out
>> with just a few clicks? Why should I undermine my way of doing things
>> to accomodatr the herd's will when the herd can accomodatr itself by
>> itself snd allow both itself and myself to have our needs met.
>>
>> I don't assume that the herd cares about the opinion of the
>> individual. It cares about the common opinion or what the vocal or
>> powerful minority present as the common opinion.
>>
>> Why should anyone be ashamed of standing up for themselves against the
>> herd mentality?
>>
>> Why should I ask not what I can do for myself but what I can do for
>> the herd? Asking the latter is how wars are justified. The German
>> youth asked what they can do for the herd not what they can do for
>> themselves. Hitler won.
>>
>> So it is not about me first. It is about meeting my needs as long as
>> they do not hurt anyone who does not want to be hurt. If someone does
>> not want to filter me out but instead wants me to abandon my way and
>> join the herd's way, it would be idiotic to accomodatr them and ignore
>> my need when they could accomodatr themselves by just filtering me
>> out, without me having to ignore my need to satisfy the herd.
>>
>> Marc
>>
>> On 5/20/09, Wittel, Andreas <andreas.wittel at ntu.ac.uk> wrote:
>> > Marc,
>> >
>> > how does your unchained and unashamed version of individualism which you
>> so
>> > strongly associate with p2p become reconciled with the p2p ethos
>> (Article 1.
>> > P2P Interactions, section D)
>> >
>> > D. Peer interactions are judged (by others who aspire to a p2p ethos) as
>> > qualitatively superior if linked to contributing to a commons
>> > <http://p2pfoundation.net/Commons> .
>> >
>> > In order to get my point, you would obviously have to replace the
>> commons
>> > with what you call the herd.
>> >
>> > Andreas
>> >
>> > PS Like you I have a fair amaount of scepticism that the majority always
>> > gets it right. But your celebration of me me me first is not a model
>> that is
>> > sustainable.
>> >
>> >
>> > ________________________________
>> >
>> > From: p2presearch-bounces at listcultures.org on behalf of marc fawzi
>> > Sent: Wed 20/05/2009 22:38
>> > To: Christian Siefkes
>> > Cc: Marco Fioretti; p2presearch at listcultures.org
>> > Subject: Re: [p2p-research] Netiquette (was: Re: leaving this list)
>> >
>> >
>> > It's called netiquette but it is essentially an agreement between the
>> vocal
>> > minority to enforce rules of behavior on the rest of society.
>> >
>> > I don't share what is supposedly a 'mass agreement' when it comes to
>> > communication. I have my own agreement, and it goes like this:
>> >
>> > If someone cannot bear to read what I send due to the style or content
>> they
>> > can set a filter in under 3 seconds to junk my replies.
>> >
>> > If someone wants me to adopt a supposedly mass agreement called
>> 'netiquette'
>> > that I did not sign on to they are being coercive. Join the herd . Join
>> the
>> > herd because the herd knows better. I don't agree. I think retaining all
>> > threads in the same message as new replies come up is easier for me
>> since I
>> > always want to see all threads of a reply in one place.
>> >
>> > So it's not just a matter of wanting to rebel against 'the herd knows
>> > better' falsehood (see Unwisdom of Crowds
>> > <
>> http://evolvingtrends.wordpress.com/2006/07/07/web-25-from-hunter-gatherer-to-democratic-society/
>> >
>> > ) but it is a logical thing for me to want to have all replies to a
>> given
>> > topic in the same message. My brain likes it better that way. Are you
>> going
>> > to argue against the methods I've developed for navigating my world?
>> Again,
>> > if you don't like it or it does not work for your brain to have all
>> replies
>> > in one message feel free to set a filter to junk my replies. It works
>> well
>> > for me and the other method does not, and only incentive to adopt the
>> other
>> > method is coercion by the herd and peer pressure, which is a dangerous
>> > pattern. If something works well for an individual and the herd can live
>> > with it (by setting a filter) then why should the individual go out of
>> his
>> > way to accommodate the herd? If the herd wants to reject the individual
>> > because the individual does not obey the herd rules or the herd taste
>> then
>> > that's a herd mentality the individual should not be wasting their time
>> > arguing with.
>> >
>> > Again, it works for me and it does not hurt the herd to filter out my
>> > messages, nor would it hurt me, as I'm hear for the experiment behind
>> the
>> > experiment, not the experiment itself. And so far it's  been pretty
>> > mediocre, nothing shocking or unexpected.
>> >
>> > But there is always more to learn.
>> >
>> > The herd can live with me using a way that is optimal for myself. The
>> herd
>> > can filter me out or kick me out of its body. But I won't change a way
>> that
>> > works for me to accommodate others when others CAN accommodate
>> themselves
>> > (by setting up a filter or agreeing as a herd to ban me) Either way is
>> > perfectly fine, but i suspect it's all just bitching and moaning since
>> they
>> > can setup a filter but they'd rather complain to have me change what
>> works
>> > for me. What a brain fuck that is!
>> >
>> > So the answer is still: NO.
>> >
>> > Give me a better argument, or setup a filter.
>> >
>> > It's totally ridiculous that this is happening in a p2p research group.
>> >
>> > Critical thinking re: group vs individual? where did that go? isn't that
>> > part of the foundation of p2p theory? or is everybody assuming this is
>> about
>> > the herd? like it is everywhere?
>> >
>> > Marc
>> >
>> >
>> >
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>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Marc Fawzi
>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/people/Marc-Fawzi/605919256
>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/marcfawzi
>>
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>
>
>
> --
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-- 

Marc Fawzi
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/people/Marc-Fawzi/605919256
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/marcfawzi
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