[p2p-research] Fwd: About Your Post: There is such a thing as peer money

Sun May 17 20:34:22 CEST 2009

Hi Michael,

I had worked in the area of "structured debate" a few years ago before
and I had posted about it 7 months ago on P2Pf @ Ning (not sure if I
deleted that post or if it's still there.. but it had zero rsponses to
it because I think people couldn't really contextualize it, and that's
due to the intertia problem you mention)

The idea, not to take away from yours (because I think yours is
fantastic and should be tried), was to have Semantic Forum where
people would tag their responses to each thread with things like
"Agree", "Debate", "Disagree", "Nonsense" and where they can add tags
within the reply itself like "InContextOf(abc paragraph from xyz
thread OR topic name)" and "RelatedTo(abc paragraph OR xyz topic
name)" so this way "filters" can be built to categorize responses
(accurately, according to how the poster intended them not how they
maybe interpreted subjectively) and basically we'd build a Semantic
Forum Language. In addition, we can build "Reasoners" or "intelligent
filters" that can make deductions for the reader, so it goes beyond
simply structuring the debate for the reader; and allows comprehension
support.

This would reduce fights (due to misinterpretation [which maybe
because the reader missed something or the poster forgot to elaborate
about the context etc, which happens very often]) and it would
increase productivity as a result of more effective dialog.

I can specify such a semantic debate system but I think that if it
could be combined with your idea or something similar then it would be
more interesting to me (as a new, fresh challenge ...)

BTW, I think that the Long Tail is failing in large part, based on
observations. It's applicable but only in small cases, and it's better
replaced with the simple statistics of chance. See this:
http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2009/05/report-challenges-long-tail-theory-on-p2p-networks/

Marc

On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 6:20 AM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Michael,
>
> this here below is a good way to re-introduce your project to our readers ,
> perhaps with an add-on of your progress the last 18 months?
>
> (and Marc F. could add his thoughts as well?)
>
> Michel
>
>
> On 5/17/09, Michael Johnson <mykl at mykljonzun.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Marc,
>>
>> Thank you for reading the overview to Ideologi.  From my perspective, the
>> only way any significant form of peer money is going to evolve is if a way
>> can be found to rapidly "scale-up" the efficacy of peer production itself.
>> Blogs and wikis, in conjunction with Web 2.0 tools, have been nothing less
>> than astonishing with ad hoc collective coordination.  But I think that the
>> shortcomings of linear discussions (I call it "The Tragedy f the Comments")
>> is, as far as I can tell, practically unaddressed in the structural design
>> of every collaborative system being used on the web today.  At first, I
>> thought that the Long Tail had dissuaded them from even thinking in the
>> other direction--what are the chances for having ten thousand responses to
>> an blog posting, right?  Let alone an ad hoc interactive discussion among
>> its users.
>>
>> But after talking to developers about it, I realized that they don't
>> recognize it as an artifact from the Internet preceeding the web.  To them,
>> it's a finished feature--"an elegant solution to a fundamental constraint"
>> of electronic dialogue.  And by seeing it as such, they are inadvertantly
>> using a function where a more elegant solution is needed to facilitate
>> high-performance peer production.  And that is where Ideologi comes in.
>>
>> Ideologi is not a replacement to discussion lists; they have their use in
>> the vast majority of blogs where comments are rare, aka The Long Tail.  But
>> it is the fat end of the tail (and cases where a post at the skinny end of
>> the Long Tail gets its 15 minutes of fame at the fat end) that is being
>> underserved by subjecting its audience to a long list of disjointed
>> comments.  Attaching scores and inputing responses directly to a previous
>> comment are definitely an improvement, but it still lacks significant
>> structure to constitute a coherent dialogue.  I believe that existing
>> communities of interest would be more than ready to invest their mindshare
>> with a format that feels more like a dialogue than something that's akin to
>> reading letters to the editor of a newspaper.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 3:56 AM, marc fawzi <marc.fawzi at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Michael, Michel,
>>>
>>> I scanned it quickly.
>>>
>>> Any attempt in this direction is bound to be very interesting.
>>>
>>> I do not see how it's related to peer money, but it is certainly
>>> related to solving collaboration problems.
>>>
>>> It could potentially solve the collaboration issues we've all
>>> experienced with one discussion list or another, but  I'm not sure how
>>> natural it would be for people to adopt... and how effective.
>>>
>>> I'll give it a second read and see if it make sense to leverage it in
>>> my current projects then report back to this thread.
>>>
>>> Thanks for sharing.
>>>
>>> Marc
>>>
>>> On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 12:41 AM, Michel Bauwens
>>> <michelsub2004 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > Hi Michael,
>>> >
>>> > Feel free to share info about your project on this  list, or via our
>>> > Ning
>>> > forum!
>>> >
>>> > Michel
>>> >
>>> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> > From: james burke <lifesized at gmail.com>
>>> > Date: Wed, May 13, 2009 at 1:43 PM
>>> > Subject: Fwd: About Your Post: There is such a thing as peer money
>>> > To: Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > something for you on peer money.
>>> >
>>> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> > From: <mykljonzun at ideologi.org>
>>> > Date: Tue, May 12, 2009 at 8:48 PM
>>> > Subject: About Your Post: There is such a thing as peer money
>>> > To: lifesized at gmail.com
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > I wholeheartedly agree with your article.  I am working on something
>>> > that
>>> > might be of interest to you...
>>> >
>>> > www.ideologi.org
>>> >
>>> > The first draft of the technical specifications of the
>>> > application/communication platform described there are now
>>> > complete--the
>>> > only remaining area is that of development itself.
>>> >
>>> > Let me know if this makes sense to you.
>>> >
>>> > -M
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Sent via a FeedFlare link from a FeedBurner feed.
>>> > http://www.feedburner.com/fb/a/publishers/feedflare
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > W: www.lifesized.net  T:+31 (0)6 5244 6445 Tw: @lifesized
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Working at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University -
>>> > http://www.dpu.ac.th/dpuic/info/Research.html -
>>> > http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>>> >
>>> > Volunteering at the P2P Foundation:
>>> > http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net -
>>> > http://p2pfoundation.ning.com
>>> >
>>> > Monitor updates at http://del.icio.us/mbauwens
>>> >
>>> > The work of the P2P Foundation is supported by SHIFTN,
>>> > http://www.shiftn.com/
>>> >
>>>
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > p2presearch mailing list
>>> > p2presearch at listcultures.org
>>> > http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Marc Fawzi
>>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/people/Marc-Fawzi/605919256
>>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/marcfawzi
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Michael Johnson | mykl at mykljonzun.com
>
>
>
> --
> Working at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University -
> http://www.dpu.ac.th/dpuic/info/Research.html -
> http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>
> Volunteering at the P2P Foundation:
> http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net -
> http://p2pfoundation.ning.com
>
> Monitor updates at http://del.icio.us/mbauwens
>
> The work of the P2P Foundation is supported by SHIFTN,
> http://www.shiftn.com/

-- 

Marc Fawzi
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/people/Marc-Fawzi/605919256
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/marcfawzi