[p2p-research] Fwd: [ox-en] No more money trickery propaganda please

[Michel Bauwens]

Hi Stefan,

I have to my knowledge not said anyting which isn't true.

You have consistently used the term of money trickery to demain the monetary
reform movement, true or not?

You have tried to impose your diktat against this theme in the discussion on
the book, true or not?

You have used terms like propaganda and esotericism to characterize
arguments for monetary reform, true or not?

You have hinted that talk about monetary reform is related to anti-semitism?

I have said nothing else that what you yourself have stated and is easily
documented.

It is you who have stopped the dialogue at the list, so where else can I
react then on the p2p list?

Please be responsible for your own choices and decisions.

This being said, it is true I am upset and may be in a period where it is
hard to me to see the silver ligning and the future cooperation. Sometimes,
often, conflicts are more acute with people who are very similar. and this
seems what has happened to us.

I am conflicted between the desire for cooperation, and what I think should
be demanded in civil cooperation, i.e. stopping to use demeaning terms in
the conversation.

I also find it very difficult to keep an artificial boundary between
obviously related subjects, just because you are declaring them off-limits,
so I rather say nothing anymore than continuously impose self-censorship.

So I think it is better to aim for a pause, and let time heal the wounds,

Michel

On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 1:56 AM, Stefan Merten <smerten at oekonux.de> wrote:

> Hi Michel!
>
> Please stop the mud campaign against me. IMHO you really don't need
> this.
>
> I still value you and your work and I say this all the time and in
> public. I do not share all of your views but that is ok with me. If
> sharing all your views is a precondition for you then I'd be glad if
> you can state this clearly because then there is really no common
> ground. However, in the past I experienced it differently.
>
> Today Michel Bauwens wrote:
> > The gist of it seems to be that anyone who is not an adherent to a black
> bag
> > theory of capitalism (it's a undivided whole you can only abolish as a
> > whole) is in fact unwittingly racial.
>
> Well, the discussion starting at
>
>        http://www.oekonux.org/list-en/archive/msg05457.html
>
> was absolutely not about this. I'm sorry to recognize that seemingly
> everything I say in this regard really doesn't reach you.
>
> > But you have to ask the question, what is the purpose of the incessant
> > taunts if not to demean and dehumanize intellectual dissidents.
>
> There was no demeaning. For everyone interested in the reasons why
> money trickery should no longer take place on [ox-en] please see posts
> like
>
>        http://www.oekonux.org/list-en/archive/msg05716.html
>
> In fact on this list here there is a fertile ground for this stuff and
> the world looses absolutely nothing if Oekonux focuses solely on peer
> production - which is only a small part of what P2P in the sense of
> Michel covers. In the contrary I'd such a separation on topics is good
> and healthy because then everyone can choose the options matching
> their personal interest best.
>
> Everybody who is interested in a focused, thoughtful and open
> discussion on peer production with a scientific approach is
> wholeheartedly welcome on [ox-en]. See
>
>        http://www.oekonux.org/list-en/subscribe.html
>
> for subscription hints.
>
> > You also have to know that Stefan attempted to export his diktat to the
> book
> > project, hence my difficulty in continuing the cooperation.
>
> I resent that you post details from private conversation here - and
> then in such a distorted form. IMHO you really don't need this.
>
> In fact I said that I would have problems with being responsible for
> certain content and asked whether this can be omitted because of this.
> If not then I can not be responsible and that is perfectly ok with me.
>
> > I actually don't want to blow all bridges, but I think I do I'm right  to
> > expect a stopping of the taunts and an abandonment of any efforts to
> stifle
> > free debate,
>
> This has nothing to do with free debate and you know this very well.
>
> In fact I think P2P Foundation and Oekonux has far more in common than
> what divides us. I understand that you are really upset now. I'm sorry
> for this but there is probably not much I can do about it.
>
> However, I think there will be times when cooperation will be easier
> again and I look forward to these times.
>
> In any case I would like to ask you to stop telling lies about me.
>
>
>                                                Grüße
>
>                                                Stefan
>



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